Cycling Question new to saltwater

[h0peless]

Hi all! I am new to saltwater and was wondering if it is a good idea to do water changes while cycling my new aquarium. I only have two Damsels in the 29gal tank right now and cycling seems to be moving along just fine. I already had my ammonia spike and is seems as though my nitrites should be falling soon. I started testing the water about a week into my new tank. The ammonia only rose to about 1ppm and then fell to 0 today. Nitrites started off at .25, steadily climbed to 2ppm and have stayed that way for around 4 days now. Nitrates have been steadily climbing, they are currently at 80ppm. I was wondering with saltwater if it is a good idea to do water changes during the cycling process? Or should I wait till after the tank has cycled to start water changes? I plan on selling the damsels back to my lfs as soon as the tank has cycled and adding some more attractive/ peaceful fish (slowly of course). I would also like to add LR eventually. I am using RO water, I have a penguin bio-wheel 150 power filter and a penguin power head for circulation. I am using a crushed coral substrate and have some "slate" rock that is suposedly going to turn into LR once I add some to the tank. I have heard that it is good and bad to do water changes during cycling with saltwater from many reliable people, just looking for some clarity.

 

[markanderson]

Its common to do water changes when cycling an aquarium. If your nitrates are at 80, then a water change will help lower it. Once your tank has cycled, new fish that are not as invincible as damsels will not tolerate a nitrate level that high.
Also I would put in you live rock as soon as possible, before adding new fish. If you add live rock to an established tank, it will cause a spike in ammonia.

 

[trigger11]

Here are my suggestions.
Please take the damsels back to the store as soon as possible. It is no longer necessary to cycle a tank using fish. The levels of ammonia that a tank goes through while cycling will burn the gills of the fish. (There are other ways to introduce ammonia to begin the cycle)
Since you have no LR in the system here is what I would do
1. Take the damsels back to the store
2. Purchase as much LR as you can afford at this time. If the LR is uncured then it will cause a cycle in the tank. If it is cured then it probably wont cycle and you would be ready to go.
3. Once the cycle is complete add your clean up crew.
4. Wait a least a week with just the clean up crew in there and then can buy a couple of fish.
Welcome to the boards.

 

[h0peless]

I had been told by my lfs, that LR was best added in the middle of the nitrogen cycle. LFS reccomended that I wait until my nitrites start to fall and then add the LR. I was planning on doing this fairly soon as I believe my nitrite will fall in the next few days. I wanted to get rid of the damsels before adding the LR just because I have heard the damsels can be a pain the get out of the tank. If I add LR and remove my damsels with out replacing them with any other fish, will my tank cycle using only LR? Is this reccomended over adding other fish and LR at the same time?
Thank in advance for the help!

 

[h0peless]

I was planning on buy LR soon anyway so I think I will take triggers advice. I will return the damsels and get some LR. Back to my original question though. If I were to get rid of the damsels and introduce LR right now with my current parameters. Is it best if I do a water change now, or before I introduce LR, or just put the LR in and wait for the entire cycle to complete? I appreciate both triggerss and markandersons advice. So far I love this site and this hobby!

 

[skeletoncowboy]

Originally Posted by h0peless
I was planning on buy LR soon anyway so I think I will take triggers advice. I will return the damsels and get some LR. Back to my original question though. If I were to get rid of the damsels and introduce LR right now with my current parameters. Is it best if I do a water change now, or before I introduce LR, or just put the LR in and wait for the entire cycle to complete? I appreciate both triggerss and markandersons advice. So far I love this site and this hobby!
i would do a water change first and then put in the LR. as long as the LR is cured though. if you do that you shouldnt have a problem. if you put the rock in with high levels like that you risk the chance of killing some cool hitch hikers!

 

[lsu]

Return the damsels immediatly!! Damsel cycling is outdated and cruel. Use shrimp tails instead or just be patient, the most important part of this trade is patience. Damsels are fish and not a tool, you just put them through hell.

 

[trigger11]

Yes, I would agree with skeletoncowbow to do a water change before putting in the LR. Probably 5G aught to do the trick. You might get some good hitchhikers on the LR and you dont want that to die off.
LSU,
No offense but please re-read your post. The OP said they were going to return the damsels to the LFS. IMO you were not being nice with your statements. A lot of folks use damsels to cycle their tanks simply because it was the preferred method for a lot of years. But now we know there are other methods out there to achieve the same results.

Making someone feel bad by telling them they put their fish through hell is going to be counterproductive in getting the word out.
~Trigger

 

[spanko]

Yeah go for a 15% water change just before adding your live rock. Here is a timeline I found helpful when cycling my tank.
Day 1
All readings should be near zero.
Day 2
Ammonia should be rising to a measurable amount.
Day 3
First stage bacteria are growing to become established,
but the amount is still very low.
Nitrite level in low, unmeasurable quantity.
Day 5
Ammonia maxs and drops.
Nitrite levels rising.
Day 8
First stage bacteria well established.
Temporary improvement of water condition.
Day 14
Nitrite levels maxs.
Day 27
Nitrite being converted to nitrate by second stage bacteri
Day 29
Second stage bacteria well established.
Nitrate levels rises
Day 30
Tank is cycled
A rise in nitrate levels after the tank has cycled may cause an algae bloom.
This is because nitrate is a plant nutrient.

 

[h0peless]

Thank you guys so much for all the help. I really appreciate it!. I will change my water tomorrow. The damsels will be returned tomorrow as well (LFS closed today). The only reason I used the damsels as a cycling fish was because my LFS recommended it. I have noticed what I believe to be algae covering the majority of my substrate and some of my rock. It is a brownish-red, almost looks like rust color. I think it's ugly and would like to get rid of it unless it is beneficial for the tank. Will my cleaning crew (I will add once tank has cycled) take care of the algae or is it something I should take care of right away by other means? If so what are the "other means?" Thanks again in advance and thank you to all the previous posters.

 

[saltymac]

damsels are the perfect fish for the job. as far as being outdated? did they cry? did you hear their screams? c'mon..... its ok 2 eat fish, they dont have any feelings...... just my opinion. but yes to your question, add the lr asap.

 

[h0peless]

I tested my tanks parameters today. PH 8.3, Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrites 2ppm, nitrates 20ppm. I haven't done any water changes yet but the last time I tested parameters, I got identical reading, except my nitrate were at 80ppm. Is there anything that would cause nitrates to fall naturally in a FO tank. I haven't added or done anything to the tank. Is it possible that I just got an inaccurate reading last time I checked parameters? thanks.

 

[lsu]

Originally Posted by trigger11
Yes, I would agree with skeletoncowbow to do a water change before putting in the LR. Probably 5G aught to do the trick. You might get some good hitchhikers on the LR and you dont want that to die off.
LSU,
No offense but please re-read your post. The OP said they were going to return the damsels to the LFS. IMO you were not being nice with your statements. A lot of folks use damsels to cycle their tanks simply because it was the preferred method for a lot of years. But now we know there are other methods out there to achieve the same results.

Making someone feel bad by telling them they put their fish through hell is going to be counterproductive in getting the word out.
~Trigger
Sorry, I was not trying to be mean or rude. Damsel cycling is just something that hits a nerve with me.

 

[deltablack22]

PETA damsel patrol is on the loose I see... You guys should realize that the LFS sells these fish knowing they are being used to cycle a tank, condone the practice and most of the time will not take the fish back. Many hobbyists feed damsels to lions - how is that any different than cycling with them? I know, they are going through "horrible" water conditions, but they live do they not? Go easy on new guys and give them both sides of the story so I dont have to chime in and save them the trip to the fish store.
Best of luck Hopeless and welcome to the forums!

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by h0peless
I tested my tanks parameters today. PH 8.3, Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrites 2ppm, nitrates 20ppm. I haven't done any water changes yet but the last time I tested parameters, I got identical reading, except my nitrate were at 80ppm. Is there anything that would cause nitrates to fall naturally in a FO tank. I haven't added or done anything to the tank. Is it possible that I just got an inaccurate reading last time I checked parameters? thanks.
its defiantly possible for either human error testing resulting in an incorrect reading, wich is what probably happened here as a 60ppm drop in nitrates is really large, but it is also possible to reduce nitrates through anaerobic bacteria, and algaes. ususally though you wont see anywhere near that much of a drop in just a few days time. I'm thinking it just may have been one drop too many of one part of the solution or the other.
the rust colored algae is diatoms its generally a phse that passes on its own.