Cynobacteria outbreak!! Now what?

[islandgirl]

OK, I've read the thread on cynobacteria and tried a few things. Changed my light bulbs, adjusted the powerheads, water change....nothing. Keeps coming back. I've had the tank up and running almost a year and never had this type of problem so why does it happen all of a sudden? I use RO water from my lfs and do frequent changes (every other week). The turkey baster thing...doesn't work very well unless I'm doing something wrong. Can anyone shed some light on this frustration!!

 

[007]

There has to be a source of it somewhere. You read the thread by JustinX? Did you try everything in it?

 

[islandgirl]

I did read the thread...I think twice. I tried to get on the search engine last night but it was down. I'm going to read it again but I'm still open to any other suggestions.

 

[joemack]

I bet you have high nitrates. Thats my problem. I added some Nitrate removing stuff Amquil+ or something but when the Cyano starved it out more nitrate back in the water so im using a net to remove the cyano and im puting it in a cup (because im getting some sand also) and washing it out real good after the cyano decays.
Run a Nitrate test and let us know if its high. I think its the problem

 

[007]

How long are you're lights on for each day?
Also, what is you GPH turnover rate for your whole tank?
Could you give some detailed info about your tank like all the hardware, and what is living in it?
Also, some test readouts would be beneficial.

 

[islandgirl]

Well I checked my nitrates....they're at 20 (they stay at 20!). I have my lights coming on around noon and going off around 10PM. I have (2) 600ppm Maxijet powerheads blowing diagonally in opposite directions. I'm not sure what the gph turnover rate is, haven't figured out how to calculated it. I moved one of the powerheads to see if it would help with the water flow but the cynobacteria just came back. The tank is an Eclipse 3 and has been up and running for about 9 months or so. I have 2 yellow tail damsels, 2 false perc clowns, 7/8 hermit crabs, 3 nassarius snails, some mushrooms and polyps, and 2 peppermint shrimp. I used to have a fighting conch - don't know where it went I have 24 watt 1 regular bulb and 1 actinic bulb. I replaced the regular bulb last week but that didn't seem to make a difference. I feed frozen Formula One every other day and a teaspoon of phytoplankton for the corals. Water parameters are:
Nitrates: 20
pH: 8.3
salinity: 1.023
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
calcium: 300 (I know...it needs to be higher - workin' on that)
mag: don't know
phosphates: dunno
alk: 130
That's all I can think of so far. Everything seems fine in the tank except for this new addition So...007...what do you think? I've heard of that red algae slime remover that works and costs around $20.00 but I'm trying to figure out the source before adding chemicals.

 

[bang guy]

A couple suggestions.
1 - Test your LFSs water for Phosphate and Nitrate. This could be a source for Cyano nutrients.
2 - Stop the Phytoplankton for a couple weeks. This can be another source, your corals cannot eat this.
Another thought is Dinoflaggilates. The easy test is that Cyano usually stops or even startes to go away after the lights have been off for 12 or more hours. Dino will not.

 

[islandgirl]

Another thought is Dinoflaggilates. The easy test is that Cyano usually stops or even startes to go away after the lights have been off for 12 or more hours. Dino will not.
HUH?? What are dinoflaggilates? So you're saying it would be a good idea to cut back on the lights? The dt's phytoplankton I thought was good for the corals? You mean I spent $20 on this stuff and it doesn't even get eaten by my corals?

 

[bang guy]

No, Cyano is a nutrient problem. It has nothing to do with your lights old or new. If it red mat shrinks at night then it's cyanobacter, if it grows even at night then it might be Dino.
Corals don't directly feed on phytoplankton except perhaps a few lagoonal species. There are zooplankton that feed on your DTs and your coral will eat these. However, if you don't have enough zooplankton to eat the phytoplankton then you're just adding nutrients that the Cyano can feed on.

 

[islandgirl]

Ohhhh....so I guess I need to check tonight to see if the slime continues to grow. So if it is dinoflaggilates...would I use the same method to rid of them (cut back lighting, feedings, adjust powerheads)? What happened to 007?

 

[bang guy]

Unfortunately I have absolutely no idea how to deal with Dino
Let hope it's Cyanobacter. I know with some patience we can get rid of that

 

[islandgirl]

I'm hoping whatever it is we can get rid of it...quick!!

 

[bang guy]

There's no quick permanent answer to Cyano. Try eliminating the DTs for a week and then if everything is fine start back up with 1/2 the dosage.

 

[007]

Here are my thoughts (assuming that the red mat fades after the lights go out)
1. Cut back on feeding. IMO you are heavily feeding a tank that is not too heavily stocked. Cut back to every two days. Do you feed a whole cube? If so use about half a cube. I use a quarter cube every two days for two clowns and IMO they are well fed. Very healthy looking. Half a cube should do just fine for four small fish.
2. I agree (sort of) with bang guy that you should drastically cut back the DT's if not stop all together. Go to adding it once a week. You bought it, you might as well use it. Just not nearly as much at a time.
3. Cut back on your lighting. Back off to about 6 hours a day until things get under control, then bring it slowly back up.

 

[beaslbob]

Island gal: If i remember correctly a few months ago you had a algae bloom and now you are getting a cyano bloom. Gee just like my system. and my nitrAtes are 20 ppm also. From what I understand cyano feed off of phosphates and with nitrAtes 20ppm I suspect phosphates are not 0.0. I would add plant life, limit feeding and whatever else to get the nitrAtes down. In the process, hopefully, phosphates also. Meanwhile keep cleaning up the cyano that does from. Hopefully that will help.

 

[islandgirl]

Ok guys, checked when the lights were off last night....no spreading so it's cyno. In response to 007, I use 1/2 cube for each feeding every other day. I've stopped using the DT's. I will cut back on my lighting as of today to 6 hrs then bring it back up to 8 hrs as you suggested.
beaslbob - what plant life would you suggest? I've had caulerpa in there but it's slowly disappearing (I think somebody is able to get in my box to eat it!) What else could work?
I will be doing my bi-weekly water change this weekend.
What is the best way to remove / clean up the cyno? I've tried the turkey baster method but I haven't had much luck. Maybe a small net?

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by islandgirl
...
beaslbob - what plant life would you suggest? I've had caulerpa in there but it's slowly disappearing (I think somebody is able to get in my box to eat it!) What else could work?
?
Caulpera should be fine. It is grape, kelp, feather? My kelp like does fine in my system. There is also true marine plants like turtle grass plus other macros also.
You could try cultureing your caulpera in another conatiner to insure you have a constant supply. Then add some to your display each week. You get those nitrAtes down and the nitrAtes and phosphates both will be lower. Then The cyano should be a thing of the past.

 

[islandgirl]

quote:

[hr]
Originally posted by beaslbob
You could try cultureing your caulpera in another conatiner to insure you have a constant supply. Then add some to your display each week.
I have an Eclipse tank and don't have room for a refugium if that's the container you're referring too. How/where do you have it in your tank? I have kelp I believe. Do I need to remove some of it every week? Still forgot to mention the best way to remove/clean out the cyno from the tank that's in there now...

 

[beaslbob]

Oh I'm sorry for the confusion. And I did remember you have an ecplise tank with little room.
When I first added a caulpera to my 55g it lasted about two weeks. My anemone crabs slowly eat it. So what I did was set up an old 20g long using new play sand and old water from my display. Then when I got in some macros I put half in the display and half in the 20g. That way I had a seperate container to culture the plants in. The most prolific was the solid leaved kelp like caulpera. Even though the plants and macros did not last long in the display, they did slowly grow in the seperate tank. Each week I would harvest some from the 20g and add it to the display. Over months I build up enough in the display the livestock could not eat it all. I now have turtle grass, gracilliarea (spelling), shaving brushes, mermaid's fans, rope, brillo pad, and even a little hair in the 20g long.
Meanwhile in the display my tang and crabs have a constant supply of live macros and nitrates are slowly going down. Just wish I had started the tank with the plants from the beginning.
So what I meant to say is to culture the caulpera in a seperate container. Even just a rubber maid type say 10-15g with some source of lighting and a sand substrate.

 

[007]

You know what . . for the first time, i think that I agree with bob here, but only to a limited extent. While the addition of plants will aid in the removal of the excess nutrients and thus eliminating the cyano, I view this as merely a band-aid approach. It is not solving the issue at the source. We need to figure out where the nutrients are coming from in the first place. I personally would never add plant life to a marine display tank. A refugium yes, but not a display.
On another note. When testing various methods of cyano removal/prevention . . . . only do one thing at a time. This way you know what the problem was and dont have to throw off a bunch of things at a time. I would say that the first step is to cut back the lighting as described and leave it that way until the crap goes away. Then slowly bring it back up in half hour increments until you see it reappear. Then back off a little bit.
Start there and lets see what happens in a week.