Dead wild percula pair

[songman]

I ordered a set of wild percula's from *Link Removed*, saltwater didn't have any. and when i got them, one seemed half dead and hung up in the pleat of the bag. Later the one hung up, the smaller one got pop eye. The big one, seemed to get a piece of cotton or something on her face, anyway she died, and then the little one died.
I have a yellow tang, clown tang, and a vemiculated or however you spell it anglefish. tHey are not sick and seem to be doing well.
I have tested my water everyway i know how and it seems fine. What reason should the clownfish have died.
Also PLEASE answer this one. When a fish dies, i have a 75 gallon reef ready oceanic. Should i worry about hunting down and removing the carcas, or can i leave it be.
the clowns were both pretty big, so i moved the rocks around and fished them out, i don't want to ever have to do that agian.
thanks

 

[alyssia]

What are your water parameters?
How old is your tank?
If you have a clean up crew, they should take care of the carcas for you.

 

[songman]

tank about 4 weeks old, with weekly 15 gallon water changes.
amonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
ph 8.2
calcium 380
i add liquid calcium to try to get the calcium up.
but other than that i don't really do anything. are there other thing i am not testing for that i should start watching.
One time a couple of weeks ago, i bought alot of kent additives cause i was told i needed them and added them. they were essential elements, tech 1, coral excell, coral vite.
But i was told on this board to stop all additives, unless like calcium, i could test for it and moniter it. I was using them just like the directions said. should i stay stopped or start using them again..
i still use the liquid calcium and use pro buffer dKH to keep ph at 8.2.
does this help you have any ideas or thoughts...

 

[alyssia]

My guess is that you stocked your tank WAY to fast. After your cycle is complete you should only add 1 fish at a time, every 2-3 weeks.
How did you cycle your tank so fast?

 

[maroonytun]

Imo, all wild caught clowns should be formalin dipped.

 

[songman]

I don't know...
i used ro water and filled it up. I had a 29 gallon tank that i took alot of rock from, by the time my 75 got here the 29 was filled to the rim with live rock and inverts. no fish...
Once the tank was setup i checked all the normal stuff and 0 across the board. In goes yellow tang. seems to be doing fine, about another week later 15 gallon change, check water 0's across the board, in goes angel fish. everything is fine. next week 15 gallon change and 0's across the board, in goes the clown pair. then the clowns die.
I have never ever had a readable level of amonia, nitirte or nitrate ever. So as far a cycling goes. I know what i have read and think i understand the philosophy, but as far as my tank goes. there has never been any amonia that goest to nitrite and goes to nitrate. so i guess i need a few things explained a little bit more.

 

[songman]

As far as wild goes they were bought from *Link Removed*, i thought they were wild, but maybe not..... what is that dipping you are talking about. i have heard of dipping in fresh water....

 

[maroonytun]

Formalin Bath

[hr]
In a separate dedicated container fill with water from your display. Use a 37% formaldehyde solution [brand name Formalin which is sold in the hobby] at 20 drops for each gal of water. Be sure to aerate the bathe water using an airstone that is deadicated to formalin bathes. Place infected fish in the bathe for 45 minutes, every other day, 3-5 treatments.
Warning: This is a toxic medication so don't overdose. When finished with the bath, safely disgard the bath water. Do not use the same water for subsequest treatments. Take care not to have contact with the formalin.
Attached Images
This is under the sticky in the disease forum.

 

[saltwater8]

Ok, let me see if I understand this...
You haven't cycled your tank?
The day you set it up you added the yellow tang?
A week later you did a 20% water change and added an angel?
A week later you did a 20% water change and added the clowns?

 

[songman]

saltwater...
I have already said all i can think to say about the cycle question...
NO, the yellow tang didn't go into the tank the day it was setup, after a few days with no measurable levels of anything i was testing for i put in the tang..
and finally, yes, after weelky water changes and still zero levels i added the other fish. I was told to make sure that are your levels are fine and then you can add fish but not more than about one a week or so..
Can you give me some feedback saltwater, i appreciate you taking time to help me with a post, but you really didn't say anything at all...
thanks and value you opinion and would love to hear your thoughts...

 

[maroonytun]

From what I have been heaing lately, a lot of the wild clowns are dieing, and people suggested formilan dipping, which has helped now with some wild caught clowns.

 

[pallan]

as to you cycle. it is possible you had enough established live rock to avert a normal cycle. but it could have been forced into a cycle with some dead shrimp to make sure right now its hard to say if you averted a cycle or if its just waiting for the bioload to overexceed the available bacteria
also what test kits are you using it is very hard to get nitrates to read 0 in any tank unless it has been running with a good sump/refuge and alot of macro algae. so i worry about your test kits giving an accurate reading right now. i would buy a diffrent brand and test for Amm, nitrite, and nitrate to see if its off.
im thinking
as to your original question. why did the clowns die. well they do not sound like they were in good shape from the shipping process. that would seem to be the main reason. the problem you have here is that you placed them into your Display with out QT them first.
i also do not have a QT tank set up but I buy from 2 trusted LFS here in town and can see the fish before i bring them home. If i ordered online i would definally consider a QT, in fact i am constantly considering one even with out ordering on line.
whatever/if any desease was brought in by the clowns will most likely infect the remainder of your fish. keep a close eye on them and if you notice anything contact beth or Lion in the desease forum. I would wait a month or so before adding anymore fish to see if you dodged a bullet. in the mean time. use that 29 gallon and do what i should be doing and set up a QT tank for just in case you need it to treat your fishies, and for when you do get new fish.

 

[songman]

I though about the test kit thing and ended up buying another one. The one i use now is the aquarium pharmicuticals saltwater master test kit. As far as the nitrates reading 0, i am not 100%. As you know the colors are sometimes hard to read perfectly. The nitrates appear to be 0 or very close to zero.
As far as the other fish, they still seem ok. I have been thinking about a quarantine tank but i don't want one anyway near 29 gallons. What is the smallest qt i can make. Could i do like 10 or 12 gallons, and just hang on a biowheel or something on the back.

 

[sinner's girl]

you really shouldn't have two tangs in a 75gl, and you should wait 4-6 before adding new fish, esp in new tanks and you should always qt fish before adding to DT.
What is the smallest qt i can make.
what size fish do you want? your qt has to fit the largest fish you want
Could i do like 10 or 12 gallons,
for a clown or small fish, yes. However, if your 29 is empty you can just set it up as a qt when you're going to add fish....
try tank raised clowns next time. BUT wait a few weeks before adding more fish, and keep an eye on those tangs..

 

[songman]

How big of a tank do you think you need per tang. I am curious, i was planning having 3 or 4 tangs and the clown pair. I wasn't planning on getting show size or anything, but the reason i bought the 75 gallon tank is so i could have tangs. I think the only difference between the 75 and up to a 120 is a few inches of height.
anyway, i am really interested in tang and tank size opinions.

 

[saltwater8]

I just found it odd that your tank had not cycled...
You seem to be adding fish way too fast…
Did you use live sand?
Did you use the water from the 29 gallon?
The absolute minimum tank size for 1 tang is 48 inches (which is what your 75 is)
Some tangs require more room than others, with a minimum tank size of 72 inches...
:happyfish

 

[sinner's girl]

I think the only difference between the 75 and up to a 120 is a few inches of height.
120 should be longer than the 75??? Tangs like swimming room. I've been told 6ft min for any tang...others say 75gl is fine for yellow.
How big of a tank do you think you need per tang. I am curious, i was planning having 3 or 4 tangs and the clown pair.
NOT in a 75!!! different tangs require different tank size
I wasn't planning on getting show size or anything, but the reason i bought the 75 gallon tank is so i could have tangs. I
they grow, even if you buy them tiny, they will grow. I have a 75gl and I got into this hobby because I wanted a yellow tang, I don't have one. I'm still trying to find out if I can keep one, long term and heathy in a 75gl. some say yes, others say no. But no way could you have more than one in a 75.
The clown tang needs 180 min tank according to Marine Fishes. if it's the same fish. Also called lined surgeonfish, Acanthurus lineatus...feed 3 times a day

 

[alyssia]

I agree, 3 or 4 tangs in a 75 is too much. Some say you can keep a yellow and a kole in a 75 (I was told one here that would be okay).
Also, the 120 they have at my lfs is twice as long as the 75.

 

[songman]

Yes, i used live argonite for the bed, i did not use the water from the 29, but the 29 was just basically full of rocks for the last few weeks.
Also what is you opinion on time frame for adding fish.
thanks for all the help from everyone...
as far as the tank size goes i thought it went to 120, i think now that from a 75 to 110 is just a few inches of height.