Deadly Zoanthids

[vanquish]

I was reading about zoanthids and was taken completely by surprise when I learned they contain a toxin called Palytoxin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palytoxin which is one of the strongest neurological toxins known to man. From my experiences in marine science, I know most of the strongest toxins are produced by marine creatures—but I had no idea my zoos were one of them! :scared:
Apparently, zoos on the surface are completely harmless (unless ingested

) and rarely even produce skin irritation for most people. But if taken in quantity can cause horrible sickness and death within minutes. I read in a separate forum a story someone posted about their dog becoming sick and actually passing away from the ingestion of his/her zoanthids. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=158663
I guess what I really want to know (as a keeper of zoos) is how many people on SWF have actually had negative experiences with these polyps, what happened to you, and how big a deal in your opinion is this really? I would assume that it is an incredibly unlikely and unusual occurrence to ever have issues with these beautiful and (for the most part) passive corals. Any one have any interesting stories or information though?

 

[deelucky]

well my thing is that i was removing some zoos to put on another rock and being that i didnt have any protective gear i knew that i was taking a risk.anyway igot sprayed in my left eye so i went and flushed it out.so what were my reaction,nothing really sometimes i feel a dull throbbing in that eye but other than that i havent had any ill effects.i guess health and tolorance maybe :notsure: not sure luck maybe

 

[seannmelly]

Um, that is pretty freaky. How exactly can they be harmful?? If they pop or do they voluntarily squirt poison out?? I know we don't have any intentions anytime soon to eat anything out of the fish tank...lol, sorry for the dumb question but, we have some zoos and they get knocked off the rocks all the time by the fish so they are handled somewhat frequently...

 

[deelucky]

i think its when you dig into them,squeeze them or cut them the seem to know what they are doing seeming that it hit me dead on as if it aimed directly at my eye.but as far as general handling like you do i would have to say no because the retract for safety after that i guess force wiil be used. :notsure:

 

[dogstar]

Some people can have a worst reaction than others, like they do with bee stings. The toxin can enter the body in other ways and not only by ingesteing/eating. Putting fingers in the mouth after handleing zoas or rubbing your eyes, a cut in you skin contacting them, ect.

 

[mikeyjer]

Zoanthids are very toxic!!! When fragging zoanthids, you should wear gloves, but most people don't. It doesn't bother me any, I pick'em up all the time. I pick up loose polyps and glue them onto another rock without any ill effect. If your zoanthid colony dies, best to triple bag the dead colony and dispose of it properly where no animal can get to it. :happyfish

 

[vanquish]

Like I said, I have two colonies of Zoanthids but have never had any problems with them. Before stumbling on this information, I would have assumed that they are completely harmless. (though I still wouldn’t eat them or feed them to my pets lol) I didn’t know they could squirt though… Are you sure they are actually defending themselves or is it more like you pinch/cut them and their juices squirt out? The fact deelucky got hit in the eye is pretty amazing, but I don’t see how they could actually “intend” for that to happen… Without vision of their own, could they actually aim like a spitting cobra can? Maybe it was just a lucky shot on their part? Lol. Glad you weren’t seriously hurt though.

Without knowing more—my guess would be that the animals are completely safe externally, but that one should be careful when fraging them like Mikeyjr pointed out, or at any point in which the animal could have leaked internal fluids. Perhaps excessive disturbance will actually cause them to squirt toxin though? I’d like someone like BangGuy, Reefnut, Viper or anyone with a story to comment on this.

 

[stanlalee]

According to that Eric Borneman frag video its not just the deadly toxins within but the natural bacterial funa of most coral tissue are the same ones that cause people to get extremely sick if ingested. He mentioned one associate who got sick four times before realizing it was the bacteria from the corals surface that cause it. All it takes is forgeting to wash your hands after handling the corals, then eating or putting your fingers in your mouth (

). Then theres the poison itself. He ask why else would so many fish and creatures pass over such meaty flesh readily available. He suggested wearing gloves. I never have and never got any reactions but I will from now on if I do any fragging.

 

[viper_930]

As far as I know, all palythoa/zoanthids contain some toxin, with Palythoa toxica and Palythoa tuberculosa being among the most toxic. But I've heard conflicting opinions on that. Some say only certain species of palythoa have the toxin, and some say all palythoa and zoanthids have it. 4 micrograms is a toxic dose to humans. In dogs, it causes death in 5 minutes at 60 ng/kg.
As for the squirting issue, I don't think zoanthids squirt voluntarily. You might be accidentally pressing against one and squeezing it.

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by deelucky
well my thing is that i was removing some zoos to put on another rock and being that i didnt have any protective gear i knew that i was taking a risk.anyway igot sprayed in my left eye so i went and flushed it out.so what were my reaction,nothing really sometimes i feel a dull throbbing in that eye but other than that i havent had any ill effects.i guess health and tolorance maybe :notsure: not sure luck maybe

The cause of it squirting like that is most likely by you pressing on one of the polyps to hard. It was probably in full bloom when you grabbed it and taken it out of the water and with excess pressure, causing it to squirt. :happyfish

 

[eyebedam]

Ive gotten real lightheaded bfore after handeling my zoas especially after fragging.

 

[viper_930]

I've handled 40+ zoa/paly frags at once and I also use rotary tools to frag them and never felt affected by it.

 

[pyro]

I got nailed in an eye from one of my mushrooms while scoring them with an exacto blade. Didn't know what to think at the time. Moreso just really pissed (can't really do much more to them... already cutting them up literally) than in pain.
Not a zoo, but I swear there is some unknown force saying if a softie squirts via pressure or whatnot; it'll attract to your eyeball.

 

[vanquish]

haha bad juju. But yea, mushrooms huh? I learned yesterday that they are actually more closely related to anemones than to corals. But of course, anemones have stinging nematocysts which contain toxins... I thought shrooms were harmless though?

guess not.

 

[stanlalee]

Several shrooms (not all) can excrete toxic substances and we all know most leathers can.

 

[medic79]

One thing I think that alot of people forget or never think about is that just because it's in your tank doesn't all of the sudden make it benign. THese are wild creatures who have natural defenses to save themselves from predetors and attacks. I think alot of people figure that they sell it in a pet store so how couold it ever be dangerous to humans.
Just something to think about just because you take the animal from the wild doesn't mean you tke the wild out of the animal.

 

[dogstar]

All corals, along with hydoids, jelly fish, anemones, sea fans, man of wars, ect. are in the phylum Cnidaria because they have specialized " stinging cells " that are like little microscopic harpons that they shoot out when triggered by contact with then. Most also contain some type of toxin at various levels.
Ever been stung by a jellyfish ???
They use this to catch prey and defence from preditors and to fight of other corals for real estate on the reef. Many zoos in the wild can grow/spread right over many other corals because they have a stronger toxin and are not bothered by weaker ones.
May depend on location and species ect, as to how much and how strong. In Hawaii the natives used the toxins from a zoa found there to poison their darts with for hunting....
Never really know what is in the tanks we keep with hitchhickers ect,. growing and most are pretty harmless to humans but gloves and basic caution is still recomended.

 

[deelucky]

i agree with everyone who posted being that to some degree wether mild or dangerous every coral in the tank has its limit when it come to fragging and as far as getting hit in the eye wrong position at the wrong time maybe

but i do know that for now on extra care will be takened when fragging just to be on the safe side and i guess getting shot at was do to maybe to much pressure :thinking: