Dedicated Circuit for Aquarium?

[indymatt]

Okay I have an electrical question here, first off I want to run a line in my basement specifically for two receptacles to power my aquarium equipment. The problem is that I don't have an open spot in my service panel. With that said can I replace a single 15 amp breaker with a double 15 amp breaker to supply this additional line with power/protection? The reason I want a dedicated line is to eliminate the stereo/TV, electric space heater, and aquarium equipment being on the same circuit. So basically, is adding a double 15 amp breaker allow me to add a line without having to buy a bigger service panel?
Come on I know there are some electrical guru's out there!

 

[agent707]

I am not aware of a single pole/dual circuit - circuit breaker. Who makes them?
Alternatively, you can extend your breaker panel by doing something like this.
Replace 2 single pole 15-20 amp breakers with a 2-pole 50 amp breaker. Run the 50 amp line to a sub panel in which you put 4 or 5 single pole breakers...
That's the simple explaination, and you'd probably want someone licsensed to help (Someone who knows the codes so you don't create any fire hazzards), or do it right out.
If there is such a thing as a dual-circuit/single pole breaker... I wouldn't want to use it.

 

[indymatt]

What I was referring to is the skinny double circuit breakers. Same size as a regular breaker but contain two breakers within it, most commonly 15 & 20 amp. They are sometimes refered to as 1/2" breakers. I hope this clarifies this a bit.

 

[scsinet]

They are called tandem breakers and yes, they'll work for what you want to do (adding another circuit without buying a bigger panel).
DO be aware however that most breaker panels limit how many and where in the panel you can use them. Siemens panels for example only allow them in something like the top half of the slots. There should be a diagram on the inside cover that more or less illustrates it.
There is no danger or safety issue with using them other than you don't want too many in one panel... only one won't hurt a thing, but be sure the slot you want to put the tandem into in your panel is a slot that's compatible with them.
One thing you may consider is freeing up a space by consolidating two existing circuits into one tandem breaker, and buying a GFI breaker for your tank. GFI breakers aren't available in tandem. Also, be aware that tandem breakers are only available with both "sides" being 15 or 20 amps, not a mix, so if you want to add 15 amps, you have to mooch off of an existing 15 amp slot.
Also, make sure you get the brand that fits. Siemens, GE, and Challenger stab type breakers all fit in each others panels with little problem. Square D and Cutler Hammer are proprietary, so you'll need a hard match. If your panel is older than about 15 years, then all bets are off on what I just said and you'll need to do your own research and figure it out. Better yet, call an electrician to be sure that your older home has sufficient capacity to add circuits.

 

[indymatt]

I have a Siemens 200 amp service panel. It already has tandem breakers in the panel. If I do this I will more than likely consolidate two circuits to a single tandem breaker. I have some electrical experience definitely like to hear points of view when dealing with electrical.
If you replace a single breaker, say a 15 amp tandem, would the tandem count as 30 amps since it is two 15's. This would be to make sure I stay under the 200 amp rating on the service panel. Thanks guys this is definitely helping.

 

[scsinet]

Yes it would count as 30 amps, but you don't have to worry about going over the 200. Breakers panels are almost always "oversubscribed," that is, the sum of all branch circuits exceeds the trip current of the service main. That's no big deal, the assumption is that you won't be loading every circuit fully at one time.
In a Siemens panel, the stabs (the metal bars in the back that the breakers slip onto) come in two shapes. A complete stab services two slots, one on the right and one immediately opposite on the left. One is a solid metal bar, the other is a "U" shape, or more accurately, it has a notch cut in the center, about 3/4" across and deep.
The notched stabs accomodate tandem breakers. Unfortunately, you'll have to pull breakers out to see them, but you can do it carefully without disconnecting any wires.
I'm sure I don't need to tell you to stand on a dry board when working in the panel and to be very careful that you pay attention to where both hands are (no pun intended).
If all of your tandem ready slots are full, there are only a couple options left. One is to install a sub panel, which is a big job that most folks will hire an electrician for, and not knowing your experience level, I'd recommend to you.
Another option is to remove an unneeded circuit. A lot of people have a home wired for 240 volts for the stove, yet have a gas stove. If this is the case with you, you can remove the 240 volt range breaker all together and free up two complete slots. Just remove the red and black (sometimes both black) wires from the breaker, tape them good and shove them off to one side.
The other is to find a couple of equal ampacity (15 or 20A) circuits that are lightly loaded and consolidate them onto one circuit. Usually each bedroom is on it's own circuit, and almost never need to be, although I think code requires that they are. Use a wire nut and a small length of black wire (14 AWG for 15 amp circuits, 12 AWG for 20 amp) to connect the two blacks to one breaker. It won't cause a safety issue by doing this provided you don't mismatch amperages, but if you choose circuits which are heavily loaded you'll end up with an overloaded circuit breaker that nuisance trips. You MAY (don't know for sure) violate code by doing this, so a home inspector will make you fix it if you every try to sell the house.
Don't consolidate breakers for fridges, microwaves, washers, furnaces, or dishwashers, or kitchen circuits. Code requires that these be dedicated.

 

[indymatt]

Do sump pumps have to have a dedicated circuit? The sump pump does have its own breaker that would be prime for consolidating. I know I could run a sub panel but really don't want to go this route if at all possible. I always wear rubber soled shoes, stand on a board, and shut off the main breaker before I even take the cover off the service. I only use one hand to work in the panel at a time if at all possible!
We have a electric stove and the such and can definitely consolidate circuits if need be. We actually mapped the breakers last night to let us know what goes with what.

 

[reefnut]

There's some great information in this thread... all I'll add if it is not covered above (and it may be) is make SURE you have a GFCI receptacle or breaker for your dedicated circuit.

 

[indymatt]

I don't think I stated that but I have one ready to go in there! THERE IS NO REASON IMO NOT TO USE A GFI NEAR AN AQUARIUM.

 

[acrylic51]

Why not pull 1 of the 15amp breakers and use a piggy back breaker which is actually 2 15 or 20amp breakers in 1. This way you only suck up 1 space in the box, but have 2 seperate circuits

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
Why not pull 1 of the 15amp breakers and use a piggy back breaker which is actually 2 15 or 20amp breakers in 1. This way you only suck up 1 space in the box, but have 2 seperate circuits

Dude that's what we're all talking about. Tandem breaker / Piggyback Breaker same difference. Catsup/Ketchup.

 

[indymatt]

I actually used a tandem 20 amp breaker and put the basement's receptacles on one side and the aquarium is on the other. The basement receptacles were already on a 20A with 12/2 so it worked out great. I have two GFIC receptacles, independent of each other, for the aquarium by itself now. I also have them both controlled by a single pole 20A switch so I can shut the whole system down with out unplugging anything or flipping switches on powercords.
About the independent GFIC's, this is a great idea that I picked up from somewhere. This way if one trips the other will stay on. I have my sump and display on different GFIC's. This way if one trips it shuts off the lights, closed loop and tank heater, but not the sump pump, skimmer, and the heater in the sump. This way the tank will be heated and circulated if only one of GFIC's trip. Now it is a completely different story if both trip!
Thanks guys for the help and ideas!

 

[agent707]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
Dude that's what we're all talking about...... same difference. Catsup/Ketchup.
No Way SCSI! Catsup is Hunts! <YUKE!!!!> Ketchup is Heinz <YUMMY!!!!!>
Not the same!
:joy:
On Topic, I have seen "tandem" breakers before come to think of it (LONG time ago... waaaaay back when I was an electrician).
Don't think I ever installed such a thing... but none the less, good solution for this.
When I had my house built a few years back... I had the electricians fill any empty slots in the panel and run the wires to the attic as "spare circuits". Once the wall was finnished, there would be no way to run wire to it (without MAJOR tearing up the house).
So in the event I need to run a new circuit somehwere, I have 3 of them sitting in the attic.

And nice going IndyMatt

 

[scsinet]

Wouldn't know... I only eat Ketchup.

 

[agent707]

Do they make them for [D] panels? I recently put an air compressor in my garage... and I may end up needing to run a line to it. I think the circuit on that wall is also in the kitchen. Can't imagine what would happen if the compressor was running and the wife decides to turn the toaster oven on.
Well, yes, I can imagine. POP!
(It's a 2HP model air bottle... 12amps I think)

 

[scsinet]

Yes, Square D does make them, although they are quite a bit more rare... not sure if your local Meglamo-Mart will carry them.
Try www.allbreakers.com. They are a little more pricey but they have just about every brand out there and are one of the few big supply houses that sell to ordinary idiots like you and me.

Down here in the south Square D panels are rare.... mostly Challenger (crap) and Siemens (great). I haven't dealt with a residential style (stab-lock) panel in a couple years, but I think that the panel type most often found in residences is a type QO. Check the inside door of the panelboard and see if you can find where it tells you the type. You need this to get the right kind of breaker. I know that allbreakers.com sorts their breakers by panel type.
Oh, and BTW... if your house is at all modern... like 20 years or younger, your kitchen and garage shouldn't be on the same circuit... code requires at least two dedicated 20 amp circuits for countertop receptacles (called small appliance circuits). It might be a case of handyman tampering...