Deep thoughts

truehle

Member
Equilibrium. One of my favorite words of all time. (It's the chemical engineer in me) I've learned through college that equilibrium is a mythical concept. Nothing ever becomes perfectly stable because of constant variations in the system and surroundings. If my aquarium was ever at perfect equilibrium, I could just leave it alone and never have to attend to it.
All we can do is try to minimize variables, and when things do start to go wrong, apply an appropriate control method to dampen the problem and prevent a crash. Unfortunately sometimes our control methods instigate the crash.
While I'd love to think of my aquarium setup as a magic box, and all parameters are equal throughout, its just not true. Temperature, pH, salinity, densities, chemical concentrations, etc. all vary throughout the system....sometimes significantly. Every time I feed the fish, put my hand into the water, turn on/off the lights, I introduce an oscillation into the balance.
This leeds to my most hated word. Assumptions

Assumptions, in my opinion, are the leading cause to the disruption of equilibrium. Here's a few of my assumptions (mistakes) that upset my system.
1. Tap water is safe to use.
2. That fish at the LFS is healthy looking enough to put right into my DT.
3. Chemicals can solve anything.
So yes, I constantly strive for equilibrium, but assumptions and lack of patience have always caused problems.
 

locoyo386

Member
So if we let our tanks alone, in a few thousands years they will reach equilibrium just the like the ocean did?
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by locoyo386
http:///forum/post/3012460
So if we let our tanks alone, in a few thousands years they will reach equilibrium just the like the ocean did?
Why yes...it would. You were trying to be a smart alec, but this statement is absolutely correct. All marine life would cease and an unchanging system would be the result.
 

truehle

Member
Originally Posted by locoyo386
http:///forum/post/3012460
So if we let our tanks alone, in a few thousands years they will reach equilibrium just the like the ocean did?
Eh, not necessarily. First off, I wouldn't go as far as to say the ocean is at equilibrium. Its just so huge, that changes are difficult to notice and/or measure. The ocean is facing constant changes from surroundings and within the system. Changes in salinity due to polar ice melt, changes in temperature (El Nino, etc.), oil spills, over fishing, destruction of reefs, underwater volcanic activity, etc.
The ocean just has a better buffering capacity than our tiny home aquariums.
 

ophiura

Active Member
our tanks, if left alone, might reach an equilibrium depending on how you define it-
It would consist of a thick crust of salt sitting over dry rocks and sand. But even then on a microscopic level, eh...
Defining and identifying equilibrium can be a problem of scale.
I like these deep thoughts

I was afraid it was another deep sand bed thread.
 

truehle

Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/3012483
our tanks, if left alone, might
reach an equilibrium depending on how you define it-
It would consist of a thick crust of salt sitting over dry rocks and sand. But even then on a microscopic level, eh...
Defining and identifying equilibrium can be a problem of scale.
I like these deep thoughts

I was afraid it was another deep sand bed thread.
Ha, nope. Not just another deep sand thread.
Equilibrium exists on the premise of in = out. Therefore, there can't be any generation or depletion of any material including energy. Fortunately or unfortunately (depending how you look at it) our tanks and the own are in a constant state of change. Thus, why I think water changes are important....to prevent accumulation of toxins and waste.
 

locoyo386

Member
Just in case you all did not catch what I meant, here it is;
If our tanks (everything for that matter) reach equilibrium, to me it would imply that the system is static. This is impossible in what we understand as life. Nothing in life is nor will it ever be static. All life as we know it is dynamic. Sure it is possible to reach an equilibriuim in a dynamic system, but all that undestand mathimatics could tell you that it has to be a very simple system. A system that has a very limited number of variables, that is dynamic, can reach equalibrium. Life as we know it is not limited in variables. To attain equilibrium in such system is, in my opinion, impossible. Sure all improbable and impossible things can be possible since we can concieve them in thought, but their probability of occuring is what makes them impossible.
 

ophiura

Active Member
I did not catch what you meant originally :) I agree that the tank would not reach an equilibrium. For me it simply is that if you left the tank alone, all the water would just evaporate. No further evidence for lack of equilibrium required
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by locoyo386
http:///forum/post/3012493
Just in case you all did not catch what I meant, here it is;
If our tanks (everything for that matter) reach equilibrium, to me it would imply that the system is static. This is impossible in what we understand as life. Nothing in life is nor will it ever be static. All life as we know it is dynamic. Sure it is possible to reach an equilibriuim in a dynamic system, but all that undestand mathimatics could tell you that it has to be a very simple system. A system that has a very limited number of variables, that is dynamic, can reach equalibrium. Life as we know it is not limited in variables. To attain equilibrium in such system is, in my opinion, impossible. Sure all improbable and impossible things can be possible since we can concieve them in thought, but their probability of occuring is what makes them impossible.
Me no undestand mathimatics good
 

uneverno

Active Member
Equilibrium = stasis = 0° Kelvin.
Quantum physicists may argue the finer points on some levels, (mostly having to do with what is or isn't real - e.g. the existence of Higgs/Boson, parallel Universes, etc.) but for the most part, equilibrium is not likely to be reached for 15 billion years or so. Give or take. The Sun will have burned out long before then.
Meantime, I'd advise keeping up with the water changes

I love Stuart Smalley.
 
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