Diagnosis Needed (Lighting Change = Cyano?)

[rudy63]

First the background...
I have a 72g FOWLR
Filtration = 2 Rena XP2's, a SeaClone100 Protein Skimmer and 2 Koralia 4s for movement
Stats:
Temp = 78
pH = 8.1
Alkalinity = High
Calcium = 450
Nitrates = 5
Nitrites = 0
Ammonia = 0
I have never tested for any other elements
Original Stock List:
1 Threadfin Butterfly
1 Flame Angel
1 False Percula Clownfish
1 Diamond Goby
1 Royal Gramma
1 Pajama Cardial
1 Blue Chromis
1 Lawnmower Blenny
2 Purple Urchins
1 Cleaner Shrimp
1 Peppermint Shrimp
3 Mexican Turbo Snails
This tank has been up and running for 3 years. About two year ago we moved across town; a feat we accomplished with no fatalities. In its new location, the coralline algae growth in our tank diminished and we started seeing both hair and bubble algae growth. Since coralline algae is a positive indicator of tank health, I was concerned and began implementing interventions to attempt to increase the coralline algae and decrease the other types of algae growth in the tank. I purchased a Lawnmower Blenny in an attempt to curb hair algae growth and also restocked our clean-up crew (snails and hermits). I also now add calcium to the tank and now our tank tests regularly 450ppm. Also, recognizing that my lighting was inadequate (I was running 5+ year old stock fluorescents from a freshwater tank I previously had) I researched and purchased a Current T5 lighting system with two 65W, 10K white light and two 54W 460 blue actinics. I installed this lighting system about a month ago and started the schedule with 12 hours of dawn-dusk light. About a week after this lighting system was installed a bubble algae and cyanobacteria bloom, although I originally thought the cyanobacteria was red slime algae, occurred covering everything and anything.
After researching both causes and treatments, I began a rigorous water changing schedule to try to treat the cause, not just the symptoms (changing 20 gallons per day for a week and then 20 gallons twice a week thereafter). I cut back on feedings from everyday to every other day. I scrubbed each piece of live rock and siphoned the sand to remove as much algae as possible. Bubble algae and hair algae responded to these interventions and, as of yet, has not returned. However, the cyano continues to be a problem. I reduced lighting to 4 hours a day for a week and, when cyano continued to grow, I further turned the lights our altogether for a week.
During this battle we lost our 2yr old Diamond Goby, followed a little over a week later by our 2yr old Royal Gramma. Neither of these fish showed outward signs of distress and ate right up to their deaths. Our Butterfly has recently developed cloudy eyes and both our Buttlerfly and Flame Angel are showing signs of what I believe to be Lymphocystis on their fins. However, I have been testing our water regularly at different times of the day and water quality remains fairly constant. Our invertebrates, usually more susceptible to distress from water quality issues, are all doing fine.
We lost the Royal Gramma just today and, at this point, I would welcome the return of the hair algae and be content with not having coralline algae if I could stop the chain of events that has gotten us to this point. I am hoping for some input so that I can further implement interventions that will get our tank back to a healthy, stable place. I want to make sure that my interventions are not causing further harms and that I am doing things to ensure that this does not happen again.
Thank you in advance for all insight you provide!

 

[clownfisher]

i also have a bad cyano break out. i used to every where but lately ive been able to get it off the ground and walls but it is still on the rocks. i bought 3 mexican turbo snails and 4 pink pin urchin. they seem to be doing a great job in eating it up. ive also heard that sand dollars will eat the cyano off the ground. this has worked for me but im not use if it will help. i still fighting and still doing water changes once a week. it will still be a long battle.

 

[2quills]

Have you checked your phosphate levels? Tap water can be high in phosphates which feeds the problem so it would help to use R/O water. I've read that phosphates and too much light are probably the biggest contributors to the problem, that as well as poor water quality (but by the amount of water changes u are doing that's probably not the case). Certain foods are high in phosphates. I was reading on one sight that said the best way to get rid of it is to starve if from all light for several weeks as well as reduce the feedings (which u have) and run phosphorous-removing filter media. It may sound extreme but quaranting your livestock and starving the cyano in the DT may be the only way to irradication. Then re-introduce the fish and your new lighting cycle starting with your actinics first for 2 weeks and then slowly introduce the whites. I've read that corraline algae actually thrives better under older actinic bulbs better than brand new ones and it hates white light so it needs time to acclimate. So run your blues first to help get it jump started as well as using the calcuim...etc.
These are just some ideas ofcourse that I've read about. I've never had to deal with cyano myself yet so don't just take my word for it.

 

[rudy63]

Thanks for taking the time...
I have never tested for phosphates, however since I am not using RO/DI water, I'm sure that was part of the original problem. At this point, it appears that the cyano has killed off any potential growing places for the hair algae.
Regarding feeding, when it’s time, I rotate between Spectrum Thera+A by New Life, Formula Two Marine Pellets from ON, frozen Mysis Shrimp and frozen Formula One chunks. I have been using the first three foods since I started the tank, then added the Formula One chunks once I added the Butterfly.
I can understand the hair and bubble algae coming from high phosphate levels but it’s amazing to think that all this cyano and stress started when I upgraded to higher output lights. It really seems like the tank has re-cycled but with no explanation.
Thanks again to those that posted already! Does anyone else have any experience or recommendations? Other than my Mexican Turbos and Urchins, is there more of a CUC that I should add?

 

[ajroc31]

Cyano, as far as I know, is connected to low oxygen levels in the tank. Try to get more surface agitation, and maybe get a fuge.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally Posted by Rudy63
http:///forum/post/3267784
...
all this cyano and stress started when I upgraded to higher output lights. It really seems like the tank has re-cycled but with no explanation.
..
?
so kill you lights for a few days and see if the cyano dies off.
the adjust your light duration to where the corals, corraline, macro thrive and th ecyano does not come back.
my .02

 

[rudy63]

@beaslbob: That's currently what I'm trying now (i.e. no lighting), however it's been over a week now and it's still not decreasing. The growth seems to have slowed, but it's not going away like I would have thought.
@ajroc31: How much more agitation do you think the surface would need? As mentioned, I'm running 2 XP2, a SeaClone 100 Protein Skimmer and 2 Koralia 4s.
Thanks again for those that have responded to try and help me understand what's happened...

 

[beaslbob]

Sometimes it takes a little while. And sometimes you even have to manually clean it to help. But eventually it will die off. Like in just a day or too.

 

[rudy63]

Just a quick update on the situation...
After running the tank without any lighting for the last few days, I have still not seen any major decrease in the cyano. It's not growing (which I guess is good), but it's not going away either. My 3 Mexican turbo snails are trying but can only do so much and my 2 urchins are useless.
Now, after feeling like the tank had turned a corner, I wake up this morning to find my Threadfin Butterfly dead! I know they are delicate but he was 2 yrs old and doing great. I'm still doing 20% water changes weekly and feeding the same. Is cyano really this deadly (death toll now at 3 fish) or could it be the Lymphocystis? Or, could I have misdiagnosed the problem to begin with? Possibly red slime algae (I'm assuming they're different) or another disease floating around that I'm not picking up on?
Thoughts and suggestions?

 

[ajroc31]

I have no idea what is killing your fish, but get the cyano out, its not that hard. Get a fish net with some filter fiber, or a container with a hole in it. Vacuum out the cyano to the container, which is placed over the sump, so that you are not losing any water. The net, or the container will catch the cyano, and you could take your time to get as much as possible. I had a cyano outbreak long time ago, it was caused by me removing the bio-wheel from my filter. Day after I replaced it, it started going down. Make sure the water surface is nice and wavy without any spilling. My surface is like a brook, and it helps to keep temps stable, in addition to stabilizing the ph. Really can't go wrong with that.