Diatoms vs Cyanobacteria?? - Pics included

[kat74]

Anything that I can do to "speed up" the process??

In between my weekly water change and siphoning of this gunk, will taking the turkey baster and puffing it away or taking the little "rake" tool that I have to kind of gently "rake" it away cause it to linger longer?

 

[michaeltx]

what you have is a form of cyno bacteria an easy way to tell is that it trapping the co2 bubbles its creating cause bubbles to chow in the mats.
99% of the time cyno is caused by lack of flow and over feeding.
cut back on your feeding and increase the flow at the bottom of the tank.
the chemiclean as already said isnt that good of a product and can nuke the tank if you do not use it just right.
are all your powerheads at the top of the tank?
FWIW
Mike

 

[kat74]

Originally Posted by mudplayerx
I didn't even see the reference to the Chemiclean. Stay away from these products! Products that remove algae, cyanobacteria, etc. can be bad for your system and only fix the problem temporarily.
I really want to stay away from any type of "product" or chemical to "fix" this. I just didn't know what else to do. I think that I have plenty of flow short of having a sandstorm. (883gph in my 29 gallon) and there is nothing in my readings that would indicate an obvious problem (in particular, nitrates 0, phosphates 0) I don't overfeed, only feeding once on Mon-Wed-Fri, and my lights are not on for excessive periods of time, so I was wanting to rule out cyanobacteria from the start, if I could help it. Diatoms, while unsightly, I can handle better, as I have heard that it can be a "typical" thing for "new" tanks to go through and it will eventually "go away" on its own, although I never went through it with my 14 gallon. I'm just frustrated with it because I am pretty happy with my tank and love looking at it, but when you have that ugly rusty looking gunk all over the place, it makes you turn away.
I just wanted to absolutely make sure, if it was possible to be sure, that it was not cyanobacteria. Still hoping that it's not. Just the way that it mats together and has that "slimey" appearance of cyano worries me.

 

[kat74]

Originally Posted by MichaelTX
what you have is a form of cyno bacteria an easy way to tell is that it trapping the co2 bubbles its creating cause bubbles to chow in the mats.
99% of the time cyno is caused by lack of flow and over feeding.
cut back on your feeding and increase the flow at the bottom of the tank.
the chemiclean as already said isnt that good of a product and can nuke the tank if you do not use it just right.
are all your powerheads at the top of the tank?
FWIW
Mike
Cut back on my feeling even more?? I'm feeding only once on Mon-Wed-Fri's only. I thought that I had enough flow? I have a total of 883gph in that 29 gallon and the two in the display (Koralia Nano and Koralia 1) are near the top on opposite sides of the tank and aiming towards the front of the tank and I can see it whipping up the very top layer of the sand. Any more flow than that, and I'm afraid I will have a small tornado in there!

Agh... cyano... diatom.... cyano.... diatom....

 

[kat74]

..... going to bed now...
Will check back with this thread in the AM to see if there's anymore help.

I truly appreciate all of the help/advice/suggestions that have been given so far.

 

[michaeltx]

I would move the powerhead towards the bottom blowing across the sand hfrom left to right or visa versa. instead of going from the back to the front.
you may have enough flow but it may be a direction problem not an amount. any dead spots in the tank will cause some problems also.
I would cut back the amount of foods. what type of foods are you feeding and how much.
Mike

 

[earlybird]

KAT,
We all feel your pain. Honestly, everyone gets cyano at one time or another in this hobby. The problem is there's not a whole lot of research on it, to my knowledge. Just keep doing everything you're doing and it will go away. Just might take a few weeks is all. I wouldn't use chemiclean either but I prefer to stay as natural as I can.

 

[kat74]

Originally Posted by MichaelTX
I would move the powerhead towards the bottom blowing across the sand hfrom left to right or visa versa. instead of going from the back to the front.
you may have enough flow but it may be a direction problem not an amount. any dead spots in the tank will cause some problems also.
I would cut back the amount of foods. what type of foods are you feeding and how much.
Mike
My tank is in my office, so when I go in to work tomorrow, I'll aim the powerhead across the sand and see if that will help.
I feed a mix of frozen; usually brine, mysis or marine cuisine soaked in zooplex, garlic plus and some type of omega fatty acid supplement. I vary it, but only feed a very small amount, less than half a small cube once on Mon-Wed-Fri.

 

[kat74]

Originally Posted by earlybird
KAT,
We all feel your pain. Honestly, everyone gets cyano at one time or another in this hobby. The problem is there's not a whole lot of research on it, to my knowledge. Just keep doing everything you're doing and it will go away. Just might take a few weeks is all. I wouldn't use chemiclean either but I prefer to stay as natural as I can.
If I continue to do what I am doing, will it go away on its own? And if so, what harm will it do to my corals and livestock by being in there and waiting for it to go away "naturally"?

 

[bonebrake]

It is definitely diatom without a shadow of a doubt - it is not cyanobacteria.
10% weekly water changes is great, but maybe for the time being up it to 20-25% weekly to help speed the process along and siphon out as much as possible each time.
You have plenty of flow and unless you have two powerheads facing each other and in so doing cancelling each other out, don't move anything.
It certainly does not occur in every new tank, but it does occur in most new tanks. I have started four tanks so far and in every one I have started, be it with cured or uncured live rock, I have had a diatom bloom period for a few weeks to a month. In my experience, it lasts longer when you use uncured live rock. Since everything you have has come from an established tank it should not last long if your nutrient export is exceeding nutrient import, that is why I recommend bumping up the water change volume temporarily.

 

[bonebrake]

Originally Posted by KAT74
If I continue to do what I am doing, will it go away on its own?
Yes.
Originally Posted by KAT74
And if so, what harm will it do to my corals and livestock by being in there and waiting for it to go away "naturally"?
It won't harm anything at all - it is just not pretty to look at.

 

[kat74]

Okay, now I am confused.... diatom or cyano?

Sounds like for either, I just need to "sit and wait"?
Will it help to know that a small amount of this brown/rust color is on my Koralia 1 powerhead?

 

[snaredrum]

Looks like diatom to me. How big is your cleanup crew. I had this problem and increased my cleanup crew and problem solved.

 

[kat74]

Originally Posted by Snaredrum
Looks like diatom to me. How big is your cleanup crew. I had this problem and increased my cleanup crew and problem solved.
Let's see.... cleanup crew... I have about 12 little blue legs, two zebra turbos, 5 astrea snails, one big turbo snail, 5 nassarius snails, 6 very small "fancy" shell nassarius snails, 1 conch, 1 cone snail, 1 scarlet hermit, and 1 electric blue leg hermit. Also have a fire shrimp and pom pom crab, but not so sure that they do much "cleaning up".

 

[bonebrake]

Clean-up crew sounds solid, but I hope you're wrong about the cone snail: they kill people. Seriously.

 

[alix2.0]

Originally Posted by Bonebrake
Clean-up crew sounds solid, but I hope you're wrong about the cone snail: they kill people. Seriously.
yeah, holy hell, if that thing really is a cone snail, get it out like... with tongs.

 

[kat74]

Originally Posted by Bonebrake
Clean-up crew sounds solid, but I hope you're wrong about the cone snail: they kill people. Seriously.
I'm pretty sure it's not the kind that can kill people, seriously. I've had this same cone snail since February and if anything, it keeps itself hidden under the sandbed most of the time. Every couple of days I will see it and pick it up to make sure that it's still alive since it hasn't appeared to move, and then it will go back under the sandbed. It's in a pretty orange and white shell. Maybe I'm calling it by the wrong name, but it's what my LFS had it named as and they have TONS of them there.
Are there dangerous ones and non-dangerous ones? Or is it called something that sounds like a cone snail?

ETA: I just saw some pics of cone snails on google and my "cone snail" doesn't look like any of those pics. It doesn't have that proboscis thing that the killer ones have, so maybe I am safe and my LFS is calling those snails by the wrong name!

 

[kat74]

OMG!!!~
Just walked into my office and that gunk is GONE!!!!!!

My sandbed is clean and white again!!! I am THRILLED!!! I suppose adding the 5 additional nassarius snails, the conch, the additional powerhead (Koralia nano), siphoning up the gunk and doing a water change must have done it!

I don't have my digital camera on me, but took this pic with my cell phone to show that my sandbed is white and beautiful again!!

A big, heartfelt THANK YOU to all of you who posted responses and helped me through this "mess".

Now that it's gone, does it mean that it was cyano, or was it diatoms? You know what? It doesn't even matter.... it's gone, right?!

 

[michaeltx]

LOl glad that its gone I still say it was cyno because of the air bubbles it was holding diatoms just dont do that and arent that easy to siphon out.
the addition of the clean up crew sure didnt hurt anything LOL
just keep an eye on it it could come back so keep up on the water changes and test the water and you should be alright.
Mike

 

[michaeltx]

hey on a seperate note I just noticed that you have a plate coral up on the rocks. these guys are best to be on the sand because of their contacting and expanding they can walk off the rocks or damage their tissues on teh rock the are on.
FWIW
Mike