Did ya notice?

[oscardeuce]

A court finds the laws in Passed recently in Wisconsin unconstitutional. The governor goes ahead with implementation. The left wing press goes wild, using terms like dictator, etc.
The Congress passes Obamacare, a judge finds it unconsitutional. Obama continues to implement the laws. The press does not even chirp.
"when you are a democrat...it's different". Jim Quinn
I am sick and tired of the hipocracy.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by oscardeuce http:///forum/thread/384855/did-ya-notice#post_3372982
A court finds the laws in Passed recently in Wisconsin unconstitutional. The governor goes ahead with implementation. The left wing press goes wild, using terms like dictator, etc.
The Congress passes Obamacare, a judge finds it unconsitutional. Obama continues to implement the laws. The press does not even chirp.
"when you are a democrat...it's different". Jim Quinn
I am sick and tired of the hipocracy.
"The press does not even chirp" when they passed Obamacare? What planet have you been living on? The Wisconsin law is a STATE issue, not a FEDERAL issue. Of course it's going to get more coverage. There's been what, 5 or 6 states that have filed a STATE ruling that Obamacare is unconstitutional? I've read plenty of stories about it. Then again, I peruse multiple news sites. I just don't hang around on Faux News or some right-wing blog site...

 

[oscardeuce]

I've been watching the press and all the left drool over how great Obamacare is. They look at the judge as just a bump in the road. Turn the tables and they all whine that the gov is a bad guy.
Unconstitutional is unconstitutional, not to be interpreted....unless you are a democrat not getting what you want.
I've heard the left say Obama is just trying to do the right thing. The ends justify the means. No mattercwhat liberties are stepped on,or how much of the Constitution is thrown under te bus
There has not been equal treatment.

 

[reefraff]

The Wisconsin mother of a union acvtivist AKA the Judge didn't rule the law was unconstitutional. She's just trying to run the clock out so it isn't published in time to be a law. The deadline is 4 days before her hearing. If the mainstream media being biased towards the Democrats is news to you then you must have been asleep the last 30 years or so

 

[bionicarm]

First off, the "end-around" way this Wisconsin governor pushed that law through the State Legislature probably would be considered unconstitutional. He didn't follow proper protocol. He found some inventive way to circumvent how to vote on the issue, then to get it 'published', he convinced some web administrator to post it on a State Government web site. This was AFTER this judge ruled that the law would not go into effect until the case was reviewed. You seem to think it's OK that this governor 'bent the rules' to try and get this law on the books no matter how many procedural statutes he broke to do it.
The Obamacare rhetoric is all about how you interpret the law. The people on the Right say it's unconstitutional, yet nothing of that law that's been implemented so far has violated anyone's Consitutional rights. Which amendment has it violated? Has anyone forced you to change your current healthcare plans? Has your rates gone up? Have you lost any coverages? Nothing of that law has affected me one iota, with the exception that my 19 year old daughter can now stay on my health plan until she's 26. That's good for her considering that she'll be close to 26 before she completes her college studies and is able to get a full-time job that offers a decent healthcare plan.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/384855/did-ya-notice#post_3373087
First off, the "end-around" way this Wisconsin governor pushed that law through the State Legislature probably would be considered unconstitutional. He didn't follow proper protocol. He found some inventive way to circumvent how to vote on the issue, then to get it 'published', he convinced some web administrator to post it on a State Government web site. This was AFTER this judge ruled that the law would not go into effect until the case was reviewed. You seem to think it's OK that this governor 'bent the rules' to try and get this law on the books no matter how many procedural statutes he broke to do it.
The Obamacare rhetoric is all about how you interpret the law. The people on the Right say it's unconstitutional, yet nothing of that law that's been implemented so far has violated anyone's Consitutional rights. Which amendment has it violated? Has anyone forced you to change your current healthcare plans? Has your rates gone up? Have you lost any coverages? Nothing of that law has affected me one iota, with the exception that my 19 year old daughter can now stay on my health plan until she's 26. That's good for her considering that she'll be close to 26 before she completes her college studies and is able to get a full-time job that offers a decent healthcare plan.
So an activist judge setting the date for a hearing on the bill beyond the date it must be published to become law so even if she rules it was properly passed it wont go on the books if fine with you? According to the Wisconsin Senate clerk which is a non partisan professional position the law was properly passed because they were in special session so their is no time limit. The judge wasn't even asked to rule on the constitutionality of the law, only if they violated procedure in passing it.
We have already had 2 health insurance companies pull out of Colorado because of Obama care and one announce they will no longer write individual policies on children, I dare say those folks had to change their insurance companies. Anyone with medicare advantage will have their premiums increased next year.
If the federal government passed a law saying they were going to fine/tax you for not having 6 months salary in savings would you be OK with that? It makes as much sense as doing the same if you don't have insurance and would be just as unconstitutional.

 

[stdreb27]

Bionic must live in the twilight zone.

 

[bigarn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/384855/did-ya-notice#post_3373103
Bionic must live in the twilight zone.
All are welcome .. It's not a bad place.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/384855/did-ya-notice#post_3373097
So an activist judge setting the date for a hearing on the bill beyond the date it must be published to become law so even if she rules it was properly passed it wont go on the books if fine with you? According to the Wisconsin Senate clerk which is a non partisan professional position the law was properly passed because they were in special session so their is no time limit. The judge wasn't even asked to rule on the constitutionality of the law, only if they violated procedure in passing it.
We have already had 2 health insurance companies pull out of Colorado because of Obama care and one announce they will no longer write individual policies on children, I dare say those folks had to change their insurance companies. Anyone with medicare advantage will have their premiums increased next year.
If the federal government passed a law saying they were going to fine/tax you for not having 6 months salary in savings would you be OK with that? It makes as much sense as doing the same if you don't have insurance and would be just as unconstitutional.
Passed in a special session? No, the Republican majority-led Senate split the original bill up so that they didn't need a quorum to vote on it. They essentially circumvented the democratic process by voting on a bill based strictly on partisan politics. The vast majority of the citizens in Wisconsin were adamately against this bill. Unfortunately, they didn't bother to go out and vote against this single-minded governor when they had a chance. I guarantee you that Walker and his Senate Republican minions will be "one and done" come next election. They're already wanting to recall all the politicians that voted for the bill.
If insurance companies are 'pulling out' of states based on this healthcare bill, then they're not worth having around in the first place. They're playing the scare tactics game as a way to show their disagreement with this law. Why? Because it will take money out of their pockets. Medicare premiums would go up regardless of this law. That's one of the big targets to help reduce this massive deficit everyone is screaming about. You can't keep funding that government boondoggle and expect to reduce the deficit at the same time.
The requirement for everyone to have some form of insurance won't go into effect until 2014. My guess is that part of the law will be removed before it ever gets inacted. It's the most controversial part of the law. If a Republican-led House, Senate, or even a Republican President comes into play in 2012, they'll repeal that part of the law in a heartbeat. It probably won't even muster support with the Supreme Court, which I'm sure will inevitably have this case come before them.

 

[spanko]

Democratic senators going awol is okay I suppose?
Judge that ruled on the law has no jurisdiction, she is a county judge. She better stick to dog catcher law.
If there is any form of health care reform left in 2014 then we had better have figured out a way by then to pay for whatever it is instead of having to borrow money for it.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/384855/did-ya-notice#post_3373129
Passed in a special session? No, the Republican majority-led Senate split the original bill up so that they didn't need a quorum to vote on it. They essentially circumvented the democratic process by voting on a bill based strictly on partisan politics. The vast majority of the citizens in Wisconsin were adamately against this bill. Unfortunately, they didn't bother to go out and vote against this single-minded governor when they had a chance. I guarantee you that Walker and his Senate Republican minions will be "one and done" come next election. They're already wanting to recall all the politicians that voted for the bill.
If insurance companies are 'pulling out' of states based on this healthcare bill, then they're not worth having around in the first place. They're playing the scare tactics game as a way to show their disagreement with this law. Why? Because it will take money out of their pockets. Medicare premiums would go up regardless of this law. That's one of the big targets to help reduce this massive deficit everyone is screaming about. You can't keep funding that government boondoggle and expect to reduce the deficit at the same time.
The requirement for everyone to have some form of insurance won't go into effect until 2014. My guess is that part of the law will be removed before it ever gets inacted. It's the most controversial part of the law. If a Republican-led House, Senate, or even a Republican President comes into play in 2012, they'll repeal that part of the law in a heartbeat. It probably won't even muster support with the Supreme Court, which I'm sure will inevitably have this case come before them.
Look, there is a simple logical conclusion. EVERY waver obama has granted to his bill. Is a company, state, etc who would have lost their healthcare this year.

 

[darthtang aw]

Look, there is a simple logical conclusion.  EVERY waver obama has granted to his bill.  Is a company, state, etc who would have lost their healthcare this year. 
 
 
What is the point of passing a law to make things affordable for the" little" guy if you are going to exempt the corporations...states...and ceos of the country from upholding their end of the law......doesn't this tend to show obama as being in the pocket of corporate interests? How else would you explain this?

 

[spanko]

Of course he is a corporatist. Look at all of the things he fought for all of his life, against big business, against the man, against the rich.................now he's livin the life.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/384855/did-ya-notice#post_3373132
Democratic senators going awol is okay I suppose?
Judge that ruled on the law has no jurisdiction, she is a county judge. She better stick to dog catcher law.
If there is any form of health care reform left in 2014 then we had better have figured out a way by then to pay for whatever it is instead of having to borrow money for it.
The Democrats left because they were defending the rights of their constiuents. They were holding to their principles that 'the people' they represented didn't want this law passed. The Republicans could care less. They just want to stick to their mantra of "Cut spending, don't raise taxes". They don't care whose toes they step on or whose lives they affect to do it. But in the long run, removing collective bargaining from these union workers won't put a small dent in their budget deficit.

 

[spanko]

They left their post instead of owning up to a fight they felt they could not win. The ran away from their elected jobs. The collective bargaining only loss is for health and retirement benefits not for wages. Do you get health care or retirement? I have to pay for my health care and get no retirement benefits. Why should I have to pay for theirs. The are government employees and should have to live in the same manner as the rest of us.

 

[darthtang aw]

The Democrats left because they were defending the rights of their constiuents.  They were holding to their principles that 'the people' they represented didn't want this law passed.  The Republicans could care less.  They just want to stick to their mantra of "Cut spending, don't raise taxes".  They don't care whose toes they step on or whose lives they affect to do it.  But in the long run, removing collective bargaining from these union workers won't put a small dent in their budget deficit. 
 
 
So the actions on a state level by the republicans is a bad thing. But similar actions on the federal level by the democrats is ok by you. 60 of the population was against the passage of the heathcare bill.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/384855/did-ya-notice#post_3373180
They left their post instead of owning up to a fight they felt they could not win. The ran away from their elected jobs. The collective bargaining only loss is for health and retirement benefits not for wages. Do you get health care or retirement? I have to pay for my health care and get no retirement benefits. Why should I have to pay for theirs. The are government employees and should have to live in the same manner as the rest of us.
Do you have a problem with your State and National Representatives getting free healthcare? How about military personnel? How about pretty much every civil servant? Why should they get the perks, yet the people who teach your kids, protect your home from fires and theft, keep your roads safe, and provide you with immediate medical assistance if you require it get the 'preverbial shaft'?
My health care is through my wife's job. Retirement? Only what I invest. But that's the road I chose. I don't begrudge those people who followed their career paths that allowed them to obtain the types of benefits they receive.

 

[spanko]

Yes I do. No not the military or the police and firemen. Any body else should have to pay as they go just like the rest of us. They are not a privileged class and I do not want to pay them as such. You are taking care of yourself, why should you pay to take care of people in the government.
The real difference here is that we are in the private sector where our employers offer this or don't as benefits. The government cannot offer this unless they take it from us.

 

[darthtang aw]

Do you have a problem with your State and National Representatives getting free healthcare?  How about military personnel?  How about pretty much every civil servant?  Why should they get the perks, yet the people who teach your kids, protect your home from fires and theft, keep your roads safe, and provide you with immediate medical assistance if you require it get the 'preverbial shaft'?
 
My health care is through my wife's job.  Retirement?  Only what I invest.  But that's the road I chose.  I don't begrudge those people who followed their career paths that allowed them to obtain the types of benefits they receive. 
 
 
Representatives...yes I have a problem.....I also have a problem with those termed individuals receiving a salary for life. Military.......no...they put their lives on the line...police officers or fireman...no. same as military. But the city waste management, the school teachers, the principals, the city council, the clerk in the business license division.....yes I take issue with that...there is no more danger to their health or well. Eing than any other job......the state commisioner, the state treasurer, the state board of education members, the state janitors, the state street sweepers...the state highway cleanup crews, the state bus drivers or transit employees and the chick working for the state taking your money to leave a parking lot........are no where near the same le el as military, fireman, or policeman............

 

[darthtang aw]

Oh, I also forgot...mantis...about half of our manufacturing jobs lost are due to technological advances...........maybe a little more than half...would have to dig out the numbers to give an exact estimate.