Disease Mystery...HLLE, Bacteria?

aquarius

Member
I've been keeping fish saltwater fish for 6 years and my latest disease bout has me completely perplexed. I have a 75 gallon FOWLR tank with a Juv. Koran Angel, a Powder Blue Tang, a Foxface, a Sohal Tang and a a pair of Percs. I know this is a very heavy load for the tank, but I had to rescue the Sohal from another owner who was about to dispose of it. Oddly enough, he is the newest fish in the tank, perhaps 6 months in my care and he has been dramatically impacted by whatever is infecting my tank. I also had a flame angel in there till about a week ago but he succombed to whatever is plaguing my tank. Without a doubt my fish are suffering from severe HLLE. The skin is erroding around the face and along the lateral line and notably on the powder blue it's starting to pit. The fish have been going through this for a little over a year, and the Koran was the first to come down with it. I've also noticed that the fish's fins are beginning are quickly deteriorating which I could only think of fin rot. But, before I go to treat whatever is wrong with the tank, I need help diagnosing the problem.
The fish get a varied diet of Formula 1, 2, and Prime Reef flakes, twice a day soaked in either Zoe, Selcon, or Zoecon. I also interchange Spirulina flakes as well. They get fresh seafood (clams, shrimp, scallops, etc.) and Seaweed Selects every few days which are also soaked in vitamins. The tank is filtered by two Fluval canisters a 304, and 404. The tank also has a protein skimmer. I'll admit that the nitrates are a little too high for my liking, and I know that this is exacerbating the problem, but it is not the root of it. I use two in-tank ground probes to eliminate stray voltage, but this has had no effect on the HLLE. I also have two other FO tanks, a 40 and another 75 and the only difference between this one and the other two is that the 40 and second 75 have a DIY wet-dry for filtration. Tank maintenance is performed regularly for each tank, they use the same source of water, and same salt mix. The filter difference is really the only variable here.
So, now what? I've always enjoyed keeping saltwater fish, but I'm getting pretty discouraged watching helplessly as their condition worsens. Any thoughts on the situation and how to remedy it? Where is the HLLE coming from? How about the rotting fins? How can I fix it? Thanks!
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Overcrowding and the nitrates are the problem. With the type of filters you use, it's not hard to understand why you have nitrates. I firmly believe that tangs have no tolerance for conditions that result in poor export of nitrates. Basically, your system importing more wastes than it can get rid of. It is the equivalent to living in an industrial city where there is lots of air pollution (such as Los Angeles). Fish, however, have less tolerance or adaptability than humans do.
And, your tank is way too small for any tangs, let alone 3, and the angel.
What type of substrate are you using?
Take a look at the info-post on HLLE in the FAQ Thread.
 

aquarius

Member
Crushed coral substrate. As far as the element of overcrowding, I do agree with you however I still don't understand why it's only this tank. The other two tanks would most likely qualify as overcrowded as well, however the fish in them are absolutley fine. Most of them have been in their tanks longer than the fish in the infected tank, too. Water quality amonst all three tanks is also the same. What would you suggest on the filters?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Crushed coral would be a major contributing factor for high nitrates.
 

lion_crazz

Active Member
I think your filtration is insufficient. The high nitrates is most likely what is causing your problems.
Do you have live rock?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I'd recommend getting rid of the cc and installing fine grain live sand. Live rock and live sand has no competition when it comes to their natural filtration capacity.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Beth
I'd recommend getting rid of the cc and installing fine grain live sand. Live rock and live sand has no competition when it comes to their natural filtration capacity.
I completely agree. Natural filtration is best. You still may want to have another sorce of filtration. A nicely stocked refuge would be great as well.
 

aquarius

Member
Would it be difficult to put in livesand with the tank filled? Doesn't it get stirred up frequently? I don't want to sufficate my fish!
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
You would have to remove everything to a rubbermaid, including your water, animals and LR. Remove the cc, then add just a little water back in tank to keep the LS in water. You can use a few cups of the old cc for your rubbermaid container just to add to the biofilter. Add the LS, then most of the LR, then add SW back to tank. Keep a few pieces of LR in the rubbermaid container for your fish and to maintain the biofilter. Keep the LR wet at all times while arranging them in the display out of water;use a dedicated spray bottle with salt water to keep the rock thoroughly wet during this process (before adding water to tank). Once the water is added, install powerheads for water circulation. By the next day the tank should be clear; test for ammonia. If you are ok with water levels by the 3rd day, then you can acclimate your fish back over to the display. Continue to check for ammonia and nitrite and pH. If you have kept your live rock really wet, you should be ok.
 
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