DIY Chiller, can it be done?

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Sandi2007x
This is called R&D. This is how inventions are made, the better mousetrap. leave these people alone, there asking for help , not criticism.
Its an economic question, if you can do all that, they you probably have a job paying quite well, and it would cost you more in your own personal time, than it would be to just go out and buy one. Unless you just like building stuff. And you feel that your own personal satisfaction is worth more than the income lost while you build your own chiller.

 

[groupergenius]

Not like I'm gonna try it but, what if you have an old fridge with a top freezer next to the tank. Would work as a space to keep your frozen foods, and the fridge part for chiller and beer storage.(gotta keep perspective here)
Run a powerhead in the sump through 1/4" plastic into the fridge. Inside the bottom of the fridge have a tub of water. Have several feet of coiled 1/4" plastic tubing in the tub of water coming from the powerhead in the sump then leaving the fridge and into the DT.
Get a temp switch at any HVAC supply store along with a good probe. Plug the powerhead into the temp switch and put the probe in the sump.
Everybody could allways use more beer storage anyway.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
Not like I'm gonna try it but, what if you have an old fridge with a top freezer next to the tank. Would work as a space to keep your frozen foods, and the fridge part for chiller and beer storage.(gotta keep perspective here)
Run a powerhead in the sump through 1/4" plastic into the fridge. Inside the bottom of the fridge have a tub of water. Have several feet of coiled 1/4" plastic tubing in the tub of water coming from the powerhead in the sump then leaving the fridge and into the DT.
Get a temp switch at any HVAC supply store along with a good probe. Plug the powerhead into the temp switch and put the probe in the sump.
Everybody could allways use more beer storage anyway.

well if you put it that way...
The question is the speed of tempurature change. Sounds like a giant math problem.

 

[groupergenius]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
well if you put it that way...
The question is the speed of tempurature change. Sounds like a giant math problem.
Not too much of a problem really. It works the same way as any other chiller. You tell it what temp you want on the chiller and it comes on or goes off. The chiller itself cannot determine what temperature it produces. It's all simply a matter of turning on and off and that is the job of the temp switch.
Same switch that will tell the powerhead in the sump to come on and turn off.
BTW, the fridge doesn't need to next to the tank. You could put the same insulation around the plastic tubing as HVAC techs use on copper coming to and from the tank to fridge.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by Sandi2007x
This is called R&D. This is how inventions are made, the better mousetrap. leave these people alone, there asking for help , not criticism.
It's not R&D, it's an attempt to save money. If someone asked me "is it theoretically possible to build your own chiller" my answer would be "certainly."
If someone asked me "is it possible to build a chiller out of a dorm room fridge" my answer would be "technically, yes."
If someone asked me "is it possible to build an effective aquarium chiller for a reef tank" my answer would be "Certainly."
However, if someone asked me "is it possible to build a chiller out of a dorm room fridge that is effective for a reef tank" my answer would be "nope."
And, if someone asked me "is it possible to build a chiller out of ANYTHING (not just dorm fridges) that would be cheaper yet as reliable as something I buy commercially" my answer would be "incredibly unlikely."
The fact of the matter is that when you are dealing with a dorm room fridge there are scientifically proven laws and rules at work here, such as the thermodynamics of phase change refrigeration, heat capacity of water versus air, heat differential, the heating and cooling power required to handle water versus what a refrigerator compressor is designed to handle, etc. This is not R&D as you are already starting with a flawed model and building on top of that. If you start with improper materials, you are going to fail. And those who ask this question here aren't after it for the challenge of making it work, they are after a way to save money. Ain't gonna happen, as R&D ain't cheap.
There is also the simple fact that very few people have the ability to truly make a unit that is tasked for the job and can be expected to perform as well as a commercial unit. You'd need the ability to weld and/or machine titanium, to design and charge a refrigeration plant, etc. Not many people have the means at their disposal when it comes to this sort of thing. At the end of the day, the best they can come up with is a "rig." Plainly put... if your system needs a chiller then it can't afford for the chiller to fail. I wouldn't trust my reef system on anything other than not only a commercially purchased chiller, but a GOOD commercially purchased chiller.
Anyway, I promised myself I wouldn't let this thread get to me. I just know this is a fools errand, and I hate to see someone dump money into something so discouraging, when at best by the time they figure out they are on said errand, the could have bought the damn thing already.

 

[groupergenius]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
It's not R&D, it's an attempt to save money. If someone asked me "is it theoretically possible to build your own chiller" my answer would be "certainly."
If someone asked me "is it possible to build a chiller out of a dorm room fridge" my answer would be "technically, yes."
If someone asked me "is it possible to build an effective aquarium chiller for a reef tank" my answer would be "Certainly."
However, if someone asked me "is it possible to build a chiller out of a dorm room fridge that is effective for a reef tank" my answer would be "nope."
And, if someone asked me "is it possible to build a chiller out of ANYTHING (not just dorm fridges) that would be cheaper yet as reliable as something I buy commercially" my answer would be "incredibly unlikely."
The fact of the matter is that when you are dealing with a dorm room fridge there are scientifically proven laws and rules at work here, such as the thermodynamics of phase change refrigeration, heat capacity of water versus air, heat differential, the heating and cooling power required to handle water versus what a refrigerator compressor is designed to handle, etc. This is not R&D as you are already starting with a flawed model and building on top of that. If you start with improper materials, you are going to fail. And those who ask this question here aren't after it for the challenge of making it work, they are after a way to save money. Ain't gonna happen, as R&D ain't cheap.
There is also the simple fact that very few people have the ability to truly make a unit that is tasked for the job and can be expected to perform as well as a commercial unit. You'd need the ability to weld and/or machine titanium, to design and charge a refrigeration plant, etc. Not many people have the means at their disposal when it comes to this sort of thing. At the end of the day, the best they can come up with is a "rig." Plainly put... if your system needs a chiller then it can't afford for the chiller to fail. I wouldn't trust my reef system on anything other than not only a commercially purchased chiller, but a GOOD commercially purchased chiller.
Anyway, I promised myself I wouldn't let this thread get to me. I just know this is a fools errand, and I hate to see someone dump money into something so discouraging, when at best by the time they figure out they are on said errand, the could have bought the damn thing already.
C'mon man....extra beer storage...don't tell me your against that??

 

[sandi2007x]

dont take this mans question so personal SCSInet, no offense intended. I like to think of this as a hobby and not a job. Not saying tap the 401K or anything, just have fun and experiment.now if its going to endanger your fish or corals, by all means dont do it, but the frige idea sounds like fun to mess with. Plus all the beer storage.A bank of chillers, wouldnt that be cool

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by Sandi2007x
dont take this mans question so personal
I don't have a problem with the OP's question, nor do I think experimentation is a bad thing. I was countering the idea of using a fridge. The OP didn't ask if a dorm fridge was a good idea, someone else did, and if you notice I didn't say a word until that came up, but when I did, I gave ALTERNATIVES for EXPERIMENTATION (room air conditioner, dehumidifier, etc). In other words, I was being CONSTRUCTIVE.
Now, for a final word on the dorm fridge because I feel I'm getting needlessly blasted for saying it's a bad idea.
Should you use a dorm fridge, what WILL happen, is that the tank won't get any cooler (because the constant heat being added to the tank by lights, the room, etc is greater than the fridge's ability to remove said heat), and at the same time the tanks' water will warm the inside of the fridge.
And I say it won't work because it can't. It takes one BTU to change one pound of water by one degree. Ergo it takes approx. 8.53 BTUs to change one gallon of seawater by one degree. For a 5 degree pulldown, it takes 42.6 BTUs per gallon. A dorm fridge compressor is rated at about 200-230 BTUs, depending on the size and model. So with a dorm fridge, to get a 5 degree pulldown, unless you have a 5.33 gallon or smaller tank, it ain't gonna happen. The OP has a 110 gallon tank. It's going to take a 3000-5000 BTU compressor to do the job, so I suggested places to start from along those lines.
I'm not taking anything personal, I'm trying to stop someone from going down a road that won't lead anywhere, and get frustrated when people say "Get off their backs, experimenting is fun!" Sure it is, but all experiments should start with a little bit of research, and I'm helping to provide that research. I don't believe that to be personal or rude, but rather helpful.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
C'mon man....extra beer storage...don't tell me your against that??

Beer ain't for storing. Beer's for drinkin'

 

[tmy880]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
Beer ain't for storing. Beer's for drinkin'

Aint that the truth

 

[groupergenius]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
Beer ain't for storing. Beer's for drinkin'

Aaarrrrrr, tis true the steely stare of the brave Capt. Quint. Eyes affixed over the stern of the great vessel "ORCA" as she pulls out of port. Remembering the love of a saucy wench, fanciful tales, and a warm beer in Amity.

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
Now, for a final word on the dorm fridge because I feel I'm getting needlessly blasted for saying it's a bad idea.
I agree on both fronts, that your getting needlessly blasted for offering advice that was asked for, and that the fridge idea will not work as well as some might think. I thought it would work once too, then I asked. then I got replies, then I did my own research and no matter where I looked the math doesnt add up to it being an effictive (cost to build and run versus effectiveness at chilling, against just buying a commercially made one.) if your trying to do a DIY chiller to save money your in for a real challenge, there really is something to be said for premanufactured mass produced products.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
Aaarrrrrr, tis true the steely stare of the brave Capt. Quint. Eyes affixed over the stern of the great vessel "ORCA" as she pulls out of port. Remembering the love of a saucy wench, fanciful tales, and a warm beer in Amity.
Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies....

 

[groupergenius]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies....
rotfl
Ha..I was hoping you would like that.

 

[bracebldrs]

i think the dehumidifier would be an exelent canidate for some people.
im tossing the idea over my self.i read a thread awhile back where
somebody took titanium tubing,matched coil windings on back hooked too
small ph/valve.then took humidistat out and relaced with themostat.now i know that the power consumption on a dehumidfier doesnt balance out.
but like me,my tanks are in finished basement and humidity can be a problem
in the cold and wet season tank temps can rise.so when i take humidity out with dehumidfier it gets dryer and warmer in basement ie causing tank
temps to rise.summers not a problem due to taking moisture out of air
and cooling with ac on,hmmmm.of course id maybe leave humidstat control in and have a secondary temp control in tank that could over ride humidistat
when needed and vise versa to not over chill.perhaps scinet has some ideas.
ps.its easy to say just buy one.fact is this hobby is expensive,yes it is good advise, but alot of us cant afford top of the line this and that so we make do with what we can.plus alittle diy can bring alotta self acomlishment and just as much reward as a healthy coral.not meaning to dis anyone for advise given.just my 2cents