DIY question! It's a surprise for my husband!

[nw2salt08]

Ok, my husband's dream tank is a 200-250gal tank set in our wall in the livingroom. I was wondering how to get it set in the wall though. He's going overseas for a year and I would love to have it set in and running by the time he gets home. I plan on doing this myself. Wondering what everyone else has done...any blueprints would be great. I would be building this from my bedroom into the livingroom. My closet is right where the wall is that we want to use. Thought this might help.

 

[scsinet]

Well there is a lot to go over.
First, if you are not familiar with construction techniques used in homes, I'd consult a contractor who can work this out with you. First and foremost, whenever you cut a huge hole in a wall, you've got to consider whether or not the wall is load bearing and make suitable accomodations.
Second, a tank this large may well need to have the floor structurally reinforced to handle it's weight. This is a non-issue of you are on a ground floor with no basement underneath.
These types of projects have been DIY'd before, but it's far from uncommon to see a structural engineer weigh in on how the best way to handle this.
Second, tanks that go between two rooms are not without challenges. When a tank sits in a "utility room" and exposes through the wall, that's one thing, but if both sides are showing, you need to think about how you are going to access the tank for maintenance. Usually in this situation you'd need movable panels above the tank to allow access.
You are definitely going to need to make electrical considerations as well as cooling considerations. When you enclose equipment in a closet or a tank in a wall, humidity becomes a challenging issue.
When you think about it, this becomes a general contractor type thing. You've got plumbing, electrical, HVAC, structural, and carpentry considerations. Unless you are familiar with doing all of this yourself, a contractor would be who I'd be talking to.
I don't mean to sound rude, but your username tends to suggest a beginner skill level. Are you sure you want to take this all on? And, would your husband be upset that he didn't get to have the fun of doing any of the work? Also be advised that a system of this magnitude can cost many thousands of dollars... even 10K plus if you "do it right."
I'm certainly not trying to discourage you, I just want to make sure you've considered everything.

 

[saltn00b]

maybe just having the tank empty wtih a bow on it could work out better in this case ?
empty, or filled with some goodies (equipment) in boxes inside of it

 

[nw2salt08]

I can do this...I'm not unfamiliar with the work. I'm a welder. Not to mention, I help my husband out with most of HIS projects. I'll do it and show you. This is what kills me. Guys think women can't handle something of this magnitude. I'm prepared and the finances won't be an issue. Just wanted to see what other people have done. Thanks anyway

 

[saltn00b]

sorry but i was with SCSI on making assumptions based on the Nw2Salt name. he gave you a lot to consider.

 

[truehle]

Sheesh! I wish my wife would take that initiative. AMAZING!!

 

[sulley]

i have seen scsinet give the same advice man or woman dont think he was trying to put u down, but i know how others think so i can see where u r coming from.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Wow - man, don't let these guys get to you. lol. I've done built in wall tanks before of this magnitude and it's not that bad. Just got to get some help doing it. Even if you are a woman, you can't lift a 250g tank into the wall by yourself?? 500+lbs?
Make sure that you talk to a contractor - do some consulting service to make sure that your house can handle those boards being cut out of your house. You wouldn't want to cut the boards out of the house and then an entire wall collapse? lol.
I suggest making the stand out of wood instead of metal. IT's not that metal isn't a very good material to use, but wood is easier to take apart if you are going to get rid of your tank and want the closet back. With that size tank, I would also go ahead and buy a 110g sump so you can baffle it for protein skimmers, refugiums and everything that you want. Also, go ahead and get a closed loop for your main tank. Even if you don't use it, you will have that option!
I suggest going ahead and getting a custom built acrylic tank. Acrylic is better insulated, you can drill holes in the material better, it's lighter and if it leaks, you can easily fix the leak with a little solvent.
Also- make the light rack easy to move out of the way so that you have full access to the entire aquarium without getting burned. Also - if you can, put it on a light rack that is on a motor so you can just push a button and it will push away.
Also, since your tank is going to be in a closet, I would go ahead and install a ventilation unit. Put an insulated vent from your closet to the roof. Have one of those "whirley birds" on your roof and a fan that blows heat and moister out of the closet/house.
Also, while you are in the process, what I would do is go ahead and set up a vapor barrier inside of your closet. The vapor barrier and insulation will help keep the tanks temp stable year round. The vapor barrier prevents moisture from rottening out your walls over the years.
If you live in a house that you have a basement underneath the tank, I would pop a hole for a drain line from the tank room to your sump pump in the basement. Just incase there are any problems with leaks, your house will not be flooded. If you live above ground in a wooden house, I would go underneath the house and support the floor joists with some concrete slabs and concrete cinder blocks. Jack the house up a little bit to make absolutely sure you get a good solid connection. Then, drill a hole in the floorboards for a drainline and of course, insert a flange or something so you create a hole for water to drain. If you live on a slab, don't worry about putting in a drain because it will cost more to put one in then the tank. lol!
Here's a good website that I think will definately help you with the build: http://www.melevsreef.com/days127.html

 

[pbienkiewi]

I am going to send my wife down to you in Atlanta so you two can be friends for a while. While she is down there you could persuade her into letting me get a tank of that size in my wall. Keep her down there till she finally agrees to the idea or I do it myself and pay there repercussions of my actions later. This would be greatly appreciated to me. Do some searching on here. There are plenty of DIY pictures to get an idea.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/307170/240g-in-wall-shallow-reef-build

 

[snakeblitz33]

Another thing to consider is electrical - I suggest setting up an electrical system on the outside of the closet, (I think in your bedroom) Just a simple panel switchboard - like what you see on the walls in hotels with a bunch of light switches. I think you get the idea. Have one for each main pump, a few for your really nice powerheads that you are going to have, one switch for each of your lighting system. One for your heat and ventalation fan. If you are going to have anything else, I also suggest having a "miscellaneous" switch - if you have misc. lights, filtration, pumps for phos reactors and skimmers etc.
You need a lot of control over your electrical systems in a closed closet like this - because any electrical problems and you can immediately turn off a system without having to open the closet and dig around inside of the stand to turn something off, you can immediately turn off that one problem system.
I hope this makes sense.

 

[snakeblitz33]

By the way, if you do go with acrylic, or even glass - set it on styrofoam. This will let the tank settle out and any imperfections in the stand will not affect the tank.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Nw2Salt08
http:///forum/post/2918795
I can do this...I'm not unfamiliar with the work. I'm a welder. Not to mention, I help my husband out with most of HIS projects. I'll do it and show you. This is what kills me. Guys think women can't handle something of this magnitude. I'm prepared and the finances won't be an issue. Just wanted to see what other people have done. Thanks anyway
I can weld too if someone who know what they are doing sets up the equipment for me but my bead will look nothing like the person who does it for a livings will, nor would i trust it to hold under the tolerances required.However i am a carpenter so i can tell you that you most likely will be biting off more than you bargained for.
Like SCSInet stated, and i don't think he was being condescending.Its just isn't as easy as you would think.First your going to need to determine if this wall is weight bearing,then determine if your floor can support the weight as is.The next thing is going to be the surprises of duct work ,electrical conduit,plumbing.....that is surely going to be in the wall you want to put your tank into.Next order of business is moving the previously mentioned obstacles,reinforcing bearing points and shoring up the floor.
Drywall taping is much like welding,its an art form and it takes time , practice, and knowledge to perfect it so it looks pleasing to the eye.The same could be said for trim work.
I work with a woman who is a carpenter and she is as good as any guy but this isn't a gender issue IMO its just a lot of work that's going to require some outside help I'm afraid.
I hope i don't offend you with this post and if have a question regarding carpentry ill be glad to help.

 

[mpdan]

if it is load bearing your header will have to be bigger depends on the weight if not load bearing 2x6 header would be fine

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by Nw2Salt08 http:///forum/post/2918795
I can do this...I'm not unfamiliar with the work. I'm a welder. Not to mention, I help my husband out with most of HIS projects. I'll do it and show you. This is what kills me. Guys think women can't handle something of this magnitude. I'm prepared and the finances won't be an issue. Just wanted to see what other people have done. Thanks anyway
Here is what I find interesting...
How do you know I'm a guy?
For the record, I am, but that's beside the point. Nowhere in my post did I say anything to suggest that gender had anything to do with it. In fact, I made especially sure to say things like "If you're not familiar" and "Unless you are familiar," rather than assuming anything. I find it a tad hypocritical that you accused me of making assumptions about you when in fact you are the one making them about me (by assuming that I said what I said because you are a woman).
I also thought about myself, being a fish guy. I thought about how if my wife had done what you are talking about for me, and I had come home, as thrilled as I would be that she'd have done it for me, I'd also have been a little disappointed that I missed out on the fun of building it.
Perhaps you should provide a complete backstory instead of assuming people would already know it.
You create a userid that suggests a skill level, then get mad at people for assuming that's accurate? Oh wait, I didn't assume, I ASKED! I'm sorry, but you've got me a little miffed. I did nothing wrong, and tried to help you.
I wasn't trying to suggest that you talk to a contractor due to any factor other than most people, men and women, aren't often comfortable with everything that is involved here. Lots of folks are fine with running wires, but draw the line when it comes to busting down load bearing walls. Other folks do that, but won't go near electricity.
So okay, you're good with taking it on. That's all you had to say.

Okay moving on... I know you are looking for plans, but I can tell you that I've never seen blueprints for this kind of thing done except when it's part of new construction. No two projects are alike. BellaNavis has a thread where she did a built in tank as part of new construction. Perhaps that will help.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/250339/my-380-fish-room-project
Another place you may want to check out is Steve Weast's page, where he did an in-wall type tank setup. He doesn't go into much detail, but the pictures might give some ideas. We can't link to outside sites here, but google "Oregon Reef" and you should find it.
Finally, I have a 180g reef build thread on here someplace where I posted a lot of pics of my own stand construction, but it's not an inwall setup or anything like that. However, it is a tank that's close (yet smaller

) than the one you are trying to do. I think I may also have some pics of the floor reinforcement that I did to support it.

 

[nw2salt08]

I wasn't making that comment directly towards you. Sorry if it came off that way. My brother was telling me the same thing and so is my dad. Well, they said that when I told them I wanted to become a welder. Showed them! lol
Any way...I do plan on getting some help. Obviously, I won't be able to lift this tank by myself. But, my LFS guys are going to be coming over and helping me build this. They've been building systems for over 30 years and know what's what. I've seen their work. But, this is not to say that I won't be in there doing the work as well. My husband doesn't have the time and doesn't understand all the things that go into a system like this. Whereas, I have a good understanding. I have a contractor coming in in two weeks and he's going to help me go through everything on the wall. Bracing isn't an issue. My husband and I went through shortly after we moved in and braced the whole house. Plus, I plan on crawling under the house and reinforcing the floor underneath the closet.
I know that this is something that seems difficult but I'm pretty good at dealing with difficult projects. This isn't the only project on the list for the year. I have to build a deck in the backyard too. Probably invite my dad and some friends over. Entice them with beer and food. lol
I just appreciate the help and am a little edgy. Husband's going over to Iraq...a little stressed. Sorry if you thought I was taking it out on you guys. Just tired of people saying I can't do something.

 

[scsinet]

First thing's first. You need to know that you and your husband have and deserve my utmost respect and gratitude for your service to our country. I (and I imagine most people here) wish you both luck.
I was concerned that maybe he was the fish guy and you were "into the hobby but not like he is." We have a lot of that on these boards. We have husbands and wives who help out their spouses' hobby, but are not as invested as they are. I was concerned that he'd be disappointed over missing out on the fun of a big project like this. For some folks, the fun doesn't start until water goes into the tank. For me, the fun starts when I pick up a saw. It sounds like he is more into having a tank to look at rather than the hobby itself...
You may consider taking some pictures of your installation site and posting them. That may give us some things to discuss.
One thing I'll tell you... if you are trying to do this and a deck in the next year, start the moment he leaves. A big project like this can take serious time. I spent almost 1 year getting my 180 gallon reef tank going, but I took it slow so I could "savor the flavor." Getting the tank well established alone can take weeks to months. I'd plan to have the system turned up by month 9. That gives you time to cycle and have more than water in there by the time he gets home. You could be building your deck while the tank is cycling.

 

[nw2salt08]

I hope it's not snowing by then. lol Building a deck in the snow would be interesting. lol Guess I'd have to get my carharts out. After doing some measuring this morning on the livingroom wall and the closet. This project is going to be scaled down. Hubby's dreams of a 200-250 may not be happening just yet. The closet is 65" height x 48" length x 36" wide. Here are some pics of the space I have to work with.... Please excuse the mess in my closet...I'm working on getting a bigger dresser and going to go through this mess within the next week before the contractor comes in.

 

[scsinet]

Hmmm I was hoping the pictures would show more than they did....
Is there any way you can make a drawing, a sort of sketch, depicting a birds eye view of the walls in the area of the tank?
I'm assuming that you are thinking of using the closet as an equipment room?

 

[nw2salt08]

Ok, so this is a VERY rough draft of what I'm talking about. HTH I'm not very good at drawing on this comp. lol But I think you'll get a better idea. Everything will be taken out of the closet and the whole space will be used for the back of the tank, lighting and the filtration system.

 

[acrylic51]

I'm going to follow this one......My hats off to you!!!!!!!!