DIY Rock

[squishyfish]

I've done about two hours worth of reading on DIY rock. It was something I was interested in when I set up my 175 bow front, but never really pursued. I've seen several threads on mixing, and some general talk on molding, but no real talk on the pro's and con's of using Faux rock.
Obviously, the two major "pro's" are that we are not pulling rock out of the ocean, and the cost factor is much lower, but in relation to issues such as:
How does this effect the time it takes a tank to mature?
How does the weight of DIY rock compare to LR, in general?
How difficult is the DIY process for the novice?
How easy is it to get a natural looking shape to the rocks.
How does the DIY rock effect the micro and macro life?
And, last, is it better to just bite the bullet and buy the real thing?
I'm sure I'll have more questions, but thats a good start.
Thanks for the help!

 

[reefdaddy1]

How does this effect the time it takes a tank to mature?It does not effect anything on maturing, will mature as fast as dead rock will
How does the weight of DIY rock compare to LR, in general?
Depends on mixture, You can make it as light or lighter the reef rock.
How difficult is the DIY process for the novice?
All depends on your imagination, Mixing is straight forward, what you come up with is what is in your talent and imagination.
How easy is it to get a natural looking shape to the rocks.
See previous
How does the DIY rock effect the micro and macro life?
When cured it will not effect anything.
And, last, is it better to just bite the bullet and buy the real thing?
If you make it, No. If your just plain lazy or unsure then I would tend to read more on the subject. But if you want to spend the money go ahead, but you will get what they blast out of the natural reef and not the look you want.
I'm sure I'll have more questions, but thats a good start.
Thanks for the help!

 

[iyachtuxivm]

Originally Posted by Squishyfish
http:///forum/post/2927141
How does this effect the time it takes a tank to mature?
How does the weight of DIY rock compare to LR, in general?
How difficult is the DIY process for the novice?
How easy is it to get a natural looking shape to the rocks.
How does the DIY rock effect the micro and macro life?
And, last, is it better to just bite the bullet and buy the real thing?
I'm sure I'll have more questions, but thats a good start.
Thanks for the help!
I wouldnt think shaping it wouldnt be too difficult just use wet sand to make a mold. Try working with smaller pieces first. As for weight depends on how you make it use some material to make "natural holes" in the rock I have heard of people using anything from styrofoam to cheetos. ( cheetos will disolve in the water used to cure it) Weight should be about the same if you make it the same density. You need to find some way of making it porous. I have done a lot of modeling, Like making terrain for multiple uses. Its not difficult just time consumming. I have also been looking into making my own. Most of your questions really depend on the porosity ( if that is a word) of your manufactured rock. The more surface space for bacteria to live the better. Like you said it helps the environment and the pocket book. To really good causes in this hobbie.

 

[txfishman]

well was trying to post a pic but didnt work. Anyway i have seen diy rock float because it was so porus.

 

[squishyfish]

Okay, so its sounding more and more do'able. Have the two of you actually made rock for an aquarium?
I've read that crushed oyster shells are the best thing to use in the mix, although, I love the idea of using the Cheeto's. I can see how you would really end up with some nice cavity's in the rock.
I would love to hear some tips on making the rock from someone who has used it in their tanks.

 

[vince-1961]

I made a bunch of rock using crushed oyster shell, poultry feed, beach sand and portland cement. Varied proportions from one batch to the next. Took two months to cure in freshwater. Put it in the tank, but didn't like the look of the piece I had on the bottom, so I took everything out and let GF aquascape. She didn't put any of it back in, so I reckon that means our shapes were just plain ugly. I put a few pieces back in, including one I call a "viking hat", b/c it looks like one. By pure luck, the piece under it made it look like a head with horns and an ugly human face, so now we call it "satan's head."
My rock was heavy and not very porous. We used all sorts of pasta. Manicotti made some great hidey holes for fish. It eventually dissolved during curing. Using Cheetoes sounds like a good idea too.
I learned how NOT shape it. Am looking forward to giving it another try.
If you like the shapes you make, the one and only downside is you get no hitchhikers.
here it is curing in freshwater.
Attachment 218134
Here is a bunch of "rubble", meaning small pieces, I made specifically for putting in the sump.
Attachment 218135
Attachment 218136
The viking hat is the top piecve obviously. When I re-did this column, I put the wedge shaped one (third one up from the bottom) under the viking hat - - hence we got Satan's Head. Column stands erect, b/c I drilled it and put a piece of acryllic rod up thru the middle.
Attachment 218137

 

[reefman22]

I know you said you'd want to hear responses from people who actually had made rock, but I'm sorry to say that I havent yet. However, to make a rock more porous, I heard in another thread on here that mixing in plastic shavings helped and tiny styrofoam balls may do also. As long as you dont mix in too much so the rock falls apart. Just a thought.
Reefman

 

[reefdaddy1]

I made a ton of it, Use a pastry bag to make lace rock, That way you it lessens weight issues. As for Cheetos I would not use them, I used Rock salt and acrylic shavings. Acrylic is as you know very light, It also promotes Coraline algae growth. It will color up before the rock will.

 

[squishyfish]

How does using plastic shavings, or acrylic shavings, make the rock more pourous? They don't melt away with the rock...That part has me confused.
ReefDaddy..you said that you wouldn't use cheeto's...any reason? I thought it was pretty clever. The cheetos and spiral pasta would melt during the curing process.
I'm also wanting to make the rock work in one or two big pieces. Have any of you tried this, and if so...what problems did you run into?

 

[iyachtuxivm]

The shavings dont make it more porous they just add more material and make it lighter. But rock salt will make it more porus.I have made small pieces as test subjects nothing in my tank yet though. My next tank will be all diy I think. You can get "hitch hikers" in some clean up crews. I have a web site if you are worried about it. It actually comes with pods, mini brittles, and the dreaded bristle worms.

 

[squishyfish]

Well, I have decided that I am definitely going to at least try my hand at some test rocks. From what I have read, crushed oyster shells are the most common aggregate. I am also going to try out several different texture techniques such as pasta, cheeto's, and rock salt.
If the rock turn out looking like real LR, and are not brittle...then I am considering recording the process, and possibly posting it on youtube. I've found lots of information out there, but have yet to find a step by step process.
Hopefully I will be able to start this weekend.

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by Squishyfish
http:///forum/post/2929125
Well, I have decided that I am definitely going to at least try my hand at some test rocks. From what I have read, crushed oyster shells are the most common aggregate. I am also going to try out several different texture techniques such as pasta, cheeto's, and rock salt.
If the rock turn out looking like real LR, and are not brittle...then I am considering recording the process, and possibly posting it on youtube. I've found lots of information out there, but have yet to find a step by step process.
Hopefully I will be able to start this weekend.
Suggest googling "GARF", you might find some instructions - if you want to see what it looks like after a few months, check out my reef aquarium build thread (no, I didn't make mine - I bought it).

 

[squishyfish]

Tank looks good. Looks like the faux rock colored up just like any other rock.
I do have one last question..At least I think its my last question. How does the DIY rock effect the cycle time. If its basically organically sterile, where does the bacteria come from that would complete the cycle? Or would I need to seed it with actual LR?

 

[renogaw]

yes, you'd have to put some live rock in to seed it, and it will extend the cycle time due to less bacteria than normal cycles.

 

[vince-1961]

Bacteria are everywhere! If you do nothing, they'll grow. Most of us aren't very patient, so we seed the tank with "live" sand or "live" (as opposed to dead) rock. One bag of live sand is the optimal choice IMHO.

[hr]
The actual process of making rock is simple. If you've ever mixed a batch of concrete, mortar, or grout, it's the same process.
1. Get container. (I'd recommend one of those black plastic 6" tall rectangular concrete mixing tubs from Home Depot for $5.)
2. Add ingredients in whatever order tickles your fancy and stir until you get the consistency (thickness) you like. A shovel or hoe works well.
Ingredients = portland cement, water and your primary volume ingredients (crushed oyster shell, poultry feed, sand, dirt, flourescent gravel, fissionable uranium, or whatever).
3. Let it "slake", also known as leaving it alone for 10-15 minutes, then re-stir.
4. Shape it. (I'd recommend using sand to make your molds, but dirt or whatever material will give you the shapes you want will work too, as long as you can remove the molding material once the concrete hardens.
5. Let it harden (i.e.- dry out) for a day or two. (Keep it moist while it dries.)
6. Remove from mold, put in tub of freshwater.
7. Change freshwater daily until pH stabilizes.
It's not rocket science. You'll get the hang of it quickly enough.
EDIT:
P.S. - Buying natural live rock at truly exorbitant prices is still cheaper than fissionable uranium.

 

[squishyfish]

I'm like a 5 year old in a candy store with only $1.00 to spend....I Can't Make Up My Mind!

My uneducated gut tells me that the LR will be better for the tank in the long run. My educated pocket book is screaming that it will not be better for him.
On the topic of bacteria, I'm patient when it comes to this hobby, but not so much when I know there is a way to speed things up. So, if I do end up making my own rock (which I think I am at least going to try), I will definitely want to seed the tank.
As far as the rock...
Vince, your post gave me a lot more confidence. You basically described exactly what I was planning to do. Your right...its not rocket science...the question is not can I get the mix right. The question is, can I make the rock look natural. I think the only way to answer that is to get my hands dirty.

 

[squishyfish]

I've spent about two more hours today researching FR. Salt seems to be a very common way of creating that "pouricity" mentioned earlier...Reefdaddy even mentioned using salt.
My question is, how do you ad it to the cement? Surely you dont mix it in like you would gravel in quickcrete. I can see how there would be quite a bit in the center of the rock that doesn't dissolve right away. Do you just pour it over the mix as you create it?

 

[iyachtuxivm]

Yes just mix it in as you mold. On the bacteria issue are you using sand on the bottom of your tank? If so get sand from your lfs's tank, one of mine actually keeps a tank just for this purpose its a little pricy like $6/bag about 4lbs I think. That should seed your tank no problem. If your interested in all the critters as I posted earlier its the same store. I woundnt think the sand would survive any long trip though. Make a thread of your progress or just continue this one.

 

[scopus tang]

There was another board member, unfortunately I can't remember his name or the name of his thread, that posted his DIY rock build in the Reef Tank forum. I remember that his user name started with a "V", and his avatar used to be of an elephant swimming or something like that - although I though I saw a recent post from him with a new avatar. Don't know, but his thread might be helpful if you can find it

.

 

[reefdaddy1]

Life on DIY rock in the long run is the same as LR you purchase. If Coarline grows on it it is holding bacteria and your filter base is the same. Wont matter now or 20 years from now which one you use they are both going to end up the same, so go with the pocket book and give it shot.