DIY Sump Filter

mooseythemoron

mooseythemoron

Member
This is what I understood, correct me if I'm wrong.
1) O/F vent in DT is lower than the water line with siphon break on top
2) I/F vent is right on the water line to prevent backflow in event of power failure
3) I did not get the drain/overflow part - 2Quills
4) Now lets get to sump tank - The water from DT goes to the skimmer which placed in the 1st chamber of the sump tank.. here I can install a UV Sterilizer too
5) Water from skimmer passes thru the bubble trap
6) It overflows to the Refuge Chamber - which has LR and Cheatos for breeding pods
7) The water overflows to the last chamber where the return pump sits
8) The return pump, pumps the water back into the DT
Qs - Do I need siphon break on both I/F and O/F?
Incase the siiphon break is blocked coz of the algae. So chances are that my DT can overflow and flood the flooring. How to prevent that?
Is there a way to hide the plumbing coz my 120 GL is going to be like a separator between my living room and dinning area. Open plumbing will look little shabby.
If I dont intend to do a refuge. What should media should i add in that chamber.
 
sparty059

sparty059

Active Member
Ok, so the 40 gallon breeder tank is going to be 2 inches too deep is what is looks like. However, this should work right?
http://www.pets-warehouse.com/vpasp/...d.asp?id=91014
Here are some additional pictures of the base cabinet and how the structure under it is built.
Attachment 244827Attachment 244828Attachment 244829Attachment 244830Attachment 244831
I can't drop in from the top because there are 4 studs going across the cabinet top. However, can't I just slide it in from the front through the back, position it and slide it int? There is 1 divider in the center front. There are 2 studs in the back I don't know if you can see the second, but the second is right in the same spot as the other just on the other side. If you slide the tank in on an angle then can't you just get it in that way? I'm really trying to avoid having to do any construction on the cabinet. I want to test it out with a box of some sort but can't find anything the right size. I tried last night with a box that was 18" deep, and of course it didn't fit... but I wanted to see if I could maneuver it to make it fit the right way. If it were 15" deep, I honestly think it would fit. I figured if I remove the door for just a little bit it should work.
So aside from the tank... what else do I need? Again, this is going to be (hopefully as long as I don't get too discouraged) a full reef tank. I have live rock, live sand, ocean reef salt, and a 1400 powerhead to rotate water a little more inside the tank.
What do I need in the filter below to make sure this works. I know I will need 2 dividers. Do I need any special piping? What pipes would fit my in/outputs that you can view in the pictures above?
I have the basic understanding right now that the water will flow in through the teeth at the top of the tank fill up and go in through the opening at the bottom of the tank. I will then have the pipe feed from that opening into the start of the sump tank and have another pipe feeding from the end of the sump tank back into the input of my tank which will flow up and out the heads at the top of my tank.
You mentioned that $200-$300 isn't worth it. How much would it cost if I make it on my own? I'll probably have to include an additional $50 to get someone out to clean my carpet also seeing that I will probably blow it the first time and will overflow the tank.
At this point time is of the essence as someone is willing to sell me their live rock for $70 (100 pounds) and I have no where to put it. I have another 60 gallon tank set up but it's with dead rock that I'm trying to clean. I've placed it in a tank with half dead half live after washing it off and am trying to get it so I can use the dead as the base without killing any water I will soon have in my 125 gallon.
I need a massive amount of help (if you all can't tell), and everything that I have been told already has help a great deal... I feel as though I am starting to get half way there.




 
sparty059

sparty059

Active Member

Originally Posted by saxman
http:///forum/post/3291808
The sump itself is very simple. You'll need:
Sump (usually an aquarium, but folks use "rubbermaid" tubs as well).
Baffles (depending on sump configuration). I use 1/4" acrylic, others use glass.
Return pump (what is your O/F rated at, or what's the ID of your standpipe at the bulkhead (BH)? )
What type of plumbing (pipe) will you use? I prefer to use black thickwall vinyl hose (Lee's or equiv.) and threaded fittings, others use rigid PVC (Schedule 40) and slip fittings (need to be glued).
Various Loc-Line (LL), plumbing fittings, etc.
The whole thing does sound daunting, but if you're even a bit of a DIY-er, you can knock this out of the park with a bit of guidance.
Before anyone goes further, is it simply the sump or the sump and whole plumbing thing you're having issues with?
Saxman,
I don't really know what my O/F is rated at. Where/how would I find this? It's a 125 gallon tank, approx 5 1/2 feet tall and the overflow is from the very top to the very bottom of the tank (I'm assuming this is standard). In the overflow there is a PVC pipe in there (For the return from the sump into the tank) that already has two heads attached to in the tank that will spit the water back in. As for the baffles are those the dividers I am speaking about? I don't know the terms yet, and am slowly working on understanding but it will take time. All plumbing I am assuming will be in the cabinet since there is already the plumbing from the top of the tank (where the two heads are) running down into the cabinet (where the bottom of the pipe is with a connector attached (view the pictures above to see what I am talking about)).
If you could answer these questions on top of what everyone else has helped out with I would again, as always greatly appreciate it.
And I must say... I love this fourm because I've learned more about these tanks and fish in the past 3 days than I have known my whole life!
 
tank a holic

tank a holic

Active Member
Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3291924
Sparty not to be a wise a$$, but tell the LFS no thanks!!!! $200-$300 for a sump, uv, and skimmer??? You'll be replacing it shortly.....1 UV filtration isn't as important as led to believe at this stage, and is only effective if done correctly and isn't a cure all......
not only that but all that for $300 pretty much means you're getting a cheapo skimmer that most likely isnt big enough for your tank
 
sparty059

sparty059

Active Member
Ok, so I watched a video on how to build one. Looks simple enough. Is there anything I am missing. I see I need to put the skimmer in the sump tank... I also will need to put my heater in the sump tank is this correct? This seems like it's too easy to be true... Is there something I am missing? Does there have to be additional hook ups for the skimmer or do I truly need just the skimmer, sump tank, and the piping and I'm ready to go? How do I make sure it won't over flow again? Or will it never over flow? I don't know how to tell what the over flow rate is. I've decided I'm going to try and find a cheap 30-36 gallon tank and will build one with that. You think that'll be perfect?
 
sparty059

sparty059

Active Member
Another awful question by me but... is a refugium the same thing as a sump tank?
---I know the difference now. Should I have both if I plan on having a coral reef aquarium? 125 gallons again.

[hr]
I THINK I GET IT!! Is a refugium kind of like a quarantine!?!?!? If so, then I shouldn't need one since I have an additional 60 gallon tank... correct? All I would need is a sump?
PLEASE TELL ME I AM RIGHT! I want to know what I am talking about for a change! I want this light bulb in my head to light up!
 
S

saxman

Guest
Originally Posted by mooseythemoron
http:///forum/post/3291980
This is what I understood, correct me if I'm wrong.
1) O/F vent in DT is lower than the water line with siphon break on top
There is no siphon break on the O/F. Once the water level in the DT drains below the teeth in the O/F, the flow stops.
2) I/F vent is right on the water line to prevent backflow in event of power failure
PERSONALLY, I tune my setups for "max quiet", so I don't run my returns above, or right at the surface, as you get splashing noises. I prefer to run the returns about 1/2" or so (depending on the return location) below the surface to minimize the noise. This is why I use siphon break holes.
4) Now lets get to sump tank - The water from DT goes to the skimmer which placed in the 1st chamber of the sump tank.. here I can install a UV Sterilizer too
This really depends on your setup...if I run an "in-sump" skimmer, i typically run them in the main sump compartment. As for a UV...I have one...in the closet. I'd spend the money you save on a better skimmer.
5) Water from skimmer passes thru the bubble trap
It depends on your setup, but generally speaking, yes.
6) It overflows to the Refuge Chamber - which has LR and Cheatos for breeding pods
Are you running a 'fuge, a sump, or a combo? How much equipment will be in your sump? A fuge is nice, but it really depends on your goal and how much room you have to play with.
7) The water overflows to the last chamber where the return pump sits
8) The return pump, pumps the water back into the DT
Correct.
Do I need siphon break on both I/F and O/F?
See #1 above. As for algae blocking the siphon break on the return...clean it out with a toothpick before it happens. If you poke a toothpick in the hole every couple of weeks, you'll be fine (I rarely find anything there).
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Is there a way to hide the plumbing coz my 120 GL is going to be like a separator between my living room and dinning area. Open plumbing will look little shabby.
Where is your O/F located? (center, corner, end?) Where is the tank drilled for the retun lines? Hidden plumbing is definitely possible, but we need to know what we're working with here. Actually, I'm currently designing a 210 gal FOWLR room divider (viewable from 3 sides), however, I'll be incorporating a closed-loop for additional flow.
Assuming you have a corner O/F, here is a really simple schematic:

If I dont intend to do a refuge. What should media should i add in that chamber.
If you don't run a fuge, there's no chamber to contend with.
 
S

saxman

Guest
Originally Posted by Sparty059
http:///forum/post/3292039
Saxman,
I don't really know what my O/F is rated at. Where/how would I find this?
Assuming you have a 1" ID drain, your flow is about 600 gph, so unless it's larger, we can go with that.
As for the baffles are those the dividers I am speaking about?
Yes.
All plumbing I am assuming will be in the cabinet since there is already the plumbing from the top of the tank (where the two heads are) running down into the cabinet (where the bottom of the pipe is with a connector attached).
Yes, from the way you describe your setup. Here's a simple sketch of a basic system with a center O/F and return (left is "outflow" from DT, right is "return" to DT):

The funny-looking thing on the left is my representation of a filter sock. I prefer these to an "inflow" baffle because I like them and it's one less baffle to add.
 
scrapman

scrapman

Member
very good info here.
thanks to all.
Two questions please:
Is there a difference between a sump and a refugium?
What is the best catastrophe-proof overflow on the market??
Thanks
 
S

saxman

Guest
Originally Posted by scrapman
http:///forum/post/3292187
very good info here.
thanks to all.
Two questions please:
Is there a difference between a sump and a refugium?
A sump is a vessel used to boost the volume of a system, and has the benefit of provising an area to stash unsightly pieces of equipment such as skimmers, heaters, etc.
A refugium is a vessel that is used as a refuge (hence the name) for pods (live food), young specimens, or even critters that would be destructive if they were in the DT. Most fuges have LR, LS, or macroalgae in them. Many utilize a reverse lighting cycle along with macro to help control nocturnal pH swings.
What is the best catastrophe-proof overflow on the market??
I assume you're talking about HOB O/F's. It's a matter of opinion...IMHO, the U-tube type is much more reliable (just keep the tube clean and free of bubbles). However, many folks use CPR-style O/F's in conjunction with an aqualifter pump, which helps them maintain their siphon. Personally, i don't want to buy the pump, hear the pump or have to rely on one.
That being said, it's best to drill your tank and install an internal O/F installed, or cut a slot/teeth in the tank and install an external O/F. The latter is my personal choice.
 
sparty059

sparty059

Active Member
Ok, I need an answer as soon as possible. I have a 125 gallon tank and just bought a 24 gallon (36x12x12) tank to use as a sump tank. Will this work or did I just screw myself? Please advise immediately!!!
Thank you.
By the way my simmer has an 8x8 or 8x9 footprint. And I'm assuming I have a 1.1 tube the 700 flow thing.
 
scrapman

scrapman

Member
Originally Posted by saxman
http:///forum/post/3292220
A sump is a vessel used to boost the volume of a system, and has the benefit of provising an area to stash unsightly pieces of equipment such as skimmers, heaters, etc.
A refugium is a vessel that is used as a refuge (hence the name) for pods (live food), young specimens, or even critters that would be destructive if they were in the DT. Most fuges have LR, LS, or macroalgae in them. Many utilize a reverse lighting cycle along with macro to help control nocturnal pH swings.
I assume you're talking about HOB O/F's. It's a matter of opinion...IMHO, the U-tube type is much more reliable (just keep the tube clean and free of bubbles). However, many folks use CPR-style O/F's in conjunction with an aqualifter pump, which helps them maintain their siphon. Personally, i don't want to buy the pump, hear the pump or have to rely on one.
That being said, it's best to drill your tank and install an internal O/F installed, or cut a slot/teeth in the tank and install an external O/F. The latter is my personal choice.
Thanks saxman. Do you play sax? I play blues piano.
I'm planing on a 20 gal fuge under my 90 gal DT. Not drilled. I have to go hang on overflow. I plan to make the fuge as nice as possible since it will be in plain view (no cabinet).
 
mooseythemoron

mooseythemoron

Member
Saxman,
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I understood the whole system, how it works and every minute detail into it.
I got the concept of "max quiet" I will do the same for my sump too.
Ok, I'll minus the UV Sterilizer and many guys on forum dont like it too.
Yes, there is place for fuge. And equipment is just the in sump skimmer at one end and return pump at the other end.
Should I get a filter sock too??
There is place for refugium. I will do that too. Add few LR, LS and heater.
Ok cool, I get that siphon break is not necessary at O/F. Talking abt the O/F I saw WEIR being used at one sump model on Marc's Website.
Should I build that? Or a simple U-tube will be fine. You were talking abt drilling a hole on the tank. Can you explain how will the U tube will stay PRIMED at event of power outage?
Abt hiding the plumbing, yes the O/F and I/F will be on the corner of the tank. What is closed-loop??
Thanks a ton once again :)
 
S

saxman

Guest
Originally Posted by Sparty059
http:///forum/post/3292395
So this is the skimmer I have... what do you guys think? Will it work well enough for me? I never heard of it, and didn't see any reviews but it was $160 at my LFS so I bought it.
We're running an Eshopps S-150 cone skimmer on our 100 gal + sump setup and it works wonderfully.
Can you explain how will the U tube will stay PRIMED at event of power outage?
Moosey,
Does your tank have a built-in O/F or will you be running a "Hang On Back" (HOB) O/F? I thought you said you had a built-in corner O/F, but now I'm confused. I just want to make sure I give you the correct advice.
An HOB will be pretty impossible to hide the plumbing completely.
 
mooseythemoron

mooseythemoron

Member
Moosey,
Does your tank have a built-in O/F or will you be running a "Hang On Back" (HOB) O/F? I thought you said you had a built-in corner O/F, but now I'm confused. I just want to make sure I give you the correct advice.
An HOB will be pretty impossible to hide the plumbing completely.
Saxman,
I am going to setup a 120GL for my new home. So basically right now im studying everything that is needed and noting everything down. This tank will be a divider between the living room and dining. So Yes all the plumbing will go in the corner and I have to hide the plumbing. Tell how should I go about the O/F. Thanks!
 
mooseythemoron

mooseythemoron

Member
Saxman,
One more Q - What size plumbing should I go for the O/F, I/F and respective return pump rating I need to purchase. To maintain the equilibrium and avoid overflow in DT and Sump. Thanks!
 
tank a holic

tank a holic

Active Member
Originally Posted by mooseythemoron
http:///forum/post/3292801
Saxman,
I am going to setup a 120GL for my new home. So basically right now im studying everything that is needed and noting everything down. This tank will be a divider between the living room and dining. So Yes all the plumbing will go in the corner and I have to hide the plumbing. Tell how should I go about the O/F. Thanks!
if you have to hide the plumbing you'll need to drill the tank bottom and run it through the glass. which is idealy the preferred method anyway, silicone an overflow box in the corner and you'll never see the pipe, then run your inlet piping in the other corner
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by tank a holic
http:///forum/post/3293618
if you have to hide the plumbing you'll need to drill the tank bottom and run it through the glass. which is idealy the preferred method anyway, silicone an overflow box in the corner and you'll never see the pipe, then run your inlet piping in the other corner
Idealy it would be the way to go, however, most larger glass tanks 55g and above are made out of tempered glass on the bottom. All 3 of my 55G and my 120g have tempered glass bottoms and drilling tmpered glass is a very bad idea. So I had to drill the back for plumbing. If you want overflows with plumbing running out of the bottom then it's best to buy a tank that has them built in already.
Just my .02
 
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