dkH and Alkalinity~how they relate to Ca level

[memnoch]

I just started testing my dkH and alk yesterday...dkH 13.44 and alk 4.796 using the Salifert test kit. My calcium levels stay around 225. I don't understand why i can't get the Ca level up. pH is stable. I'm at a loss here.....should i just continue to add CaCl or let things sit until dkH comes down some?

 

[nm reef]

Memnoch...I confess that I am not an expert in the relationship between calcium & alkalinity...the method I use has allowed me to maintain levels consistantly for close to 18 months. My calcium stays around 450 ppm & my alkalinity stays around 3.5 meg/l...ph ranges from 8.0-8.3 daily with a specific gravity of 1.024 and a temp range of 78-82. I've attached a short but informative article that may help answer your question....or at least get you going in the right direction.
It may help some of the other members to provide assistance if you provide more information on your system and the additives you use to establish/maintain levels of calcium/alkalinity....I use Seachem products(builder & advantage) to establish levels and kalkwasser to maintain established levels.Each system is different and there are numerous products available to use...the more specific info you provide will help in understanding and solving your situation....I hope the link helps a bit...
alkalinity/calcium

 

[broomer5]

No expert here either but I'll toss in my thoughts.
What buffers have you been adding ?
What calcium products have you been using ?
What saltmix do you use ?
What freshwater source do you normally use for saltmixing, top offs and water changes ?
I will say that the relationship between pH, calcium and alkalinity is one of a balancing act. The rate at which these values change over time is affected by what you keep in the tank, and how it's set up.
Corals, fish and algaes, as well as your choice in substrates ( to a minor degree ) will cause these values to change.
Water circulation and gas exchanges at the water surface certainly will impact the tank chemistry as well.
Freshwater source - man this can really cause some things to whack out too.
Normally if you add buffers or alk building additives - without adding calcium - you find your alkalinity will be high and calcium dropping off.
Likewise if you just add calcium with out maintaining the alk - you're calcium may skyrocket - and may end up reaching saturation - which many times results in calcium carbonate falling out ( precipitating ) of solution - clouding the tank, or causing white hazy film over everything in the tank.
The pH will normally be affected when this happens too.
It's important to discuss pH, calcium and alkalinity as a group of numbers.
Measuring/listing just one of these variables - without the other two is most often times meaningless.
It's great that you listed and tested for all these values.
You're way ahead of most people already.
It took me a long time to figure out the relationships in my tank(s) and I'm still trying to figure it out completely.
It started to make sense to me when I started writing down what I measured and what I added.
Alkalinity, pH and calcium interact and have a huge affect on each other as we add supplements/additives to the tank.
As you see .... NM reef mentions not only these 3 values, but also includes salinity/specific gravity and temperature.
You must look at ALL the parameters when trying to troubleshoot or make adjustments to the tankwater chemistry.
If not - as the article he posted states - you may find your test results going up and down, you may end up adding the wrong amount of supplement, at the wrong time.
Chasing numbers is no fun.
Knowing all the test results - helps to understand the relationships.
If I were you, I would do the following.
Stop adding any buffers or alk builder products.
Continue to add calcium chloride.
Monitor you levels of pH, calcium and alkalinity.
If you don't see the changes you want - start in with partial water changes to pull things back into "balance"
Good article NM reef !

 

[twoods71]

Great article.
I use Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium and it is much different then calcium chloride in that if used properly it will not lower your alk levels.
I love that stuff as it has been very reliable for me.
The point is you must be sure of what you are adding to your tank. There are many different products that perform many differnt tasks. Read the product label and hopefully you can find enough info on how to use it properly.

 

[memnoch]

Thanks guys for the thoughtful replies and the article...my tank setup is not ideal because unfortunately i learned as i went along. I have a 42 gallon Hex with 70lbs of LR and a crushed coral substrate (I know I should have done DSB now). I have multiple corals in the tank...ie...pulsing xenia-5 stalks started as 1, a caulestria, 3 medium sized greenstar polyps, one umbrella leather, one devil's hand leather, one hairy finger leather, one frogspawn with 4 heads, 10 assorted shrooms, one carnation, encrusting anthelia, and one red open brain. My rock is covered with purple, green, and some pink coralline algae. I have a ocellaris clown, purple firefish, six-line wrasse, and a royal gramma. Inverts include about 12 snails, 6 mithrax crabs, one fireshrimp, one CB shrimp, and about 10 peppermints.
The parameters as of tonight are as follows:
pH 8.3
NO3 ~10ppm
NO2 0ppm
NH4 0ppm
specific gravity is hovering at 1.021-i'm working on bringing this up slowly...i try to maintain it at 1.023-5.
Ca++ ~225
Temp fluctuates between 78-83 F--i can't seem to get it more stable than that.
This is all that i test for....and all that i intend to
My lighting is 110watts of PC one 10K and one ultra-actinic.
I also use a prizm skimmer in the in-tank sump(i know that sux). I change out a filter bag with 2 cups of activated carbon monthly. All bio-balls and mechanical filters have been removed. My tank requires that i scrape coralline off the glass ~ every 3 days. All corals look great so i don't have much to complain about. I'd just like to obtain perfection like you guys!
Any thoughts here are appreciated. Currently i use Kent's "liquid reactor" for my alk and Ca++ additive. Supposedly it does this in one additive but i'm having my doubts now. I had been following the bottle's recommendation. I also add Kent trace elements every other week in between 20% water changes every other week. I use RO to mix my saltwater changes and use distilled water to top off evaporation. Thanks for reading the lengthy post....didn't really notice how much work i was doing until i wrote this out.....guess time really does fly when you're having fun. On a sidenote i watched my open brain eat for the first time tonight...i sat a chunk of Formula1 on it and fended off the clown with a plastic spoon...that coral is WAY COOL!!

 

[chrisfp66]

Haven't heard anybody ask but what kind of salt are you using? There are a lot of salts out there that work fine for fish only tanks but are not appropriate for reef aquariums? I am still experimenting with different salts but you should use one that has good calcium levels to begin with.

 

[gatorwpb]

OMG 6 yr old post back from the dead!!