Do Fish stores use copper in their display tanks?

[audiophile]

Anyway, current setup is a fish only tank with a few hermit crabs and 1 cleaner shrimp. I will be giving my hermit crabs and cleaner shrimp away since copper will kill them including my benificial bacteria. I would like to use copper so I no longer have to worry about ich and other bad things it may cure along the way.
I have done a search here and all of you appear to be against using copper in your display tanks and it makes a whole lot of sense. But here's the problem I have. In the two years I started in this hobby I've had butterflies and a few angels that died because of ich. I've lost alot of money so I was thinking of just using copper, besides like I said I'm only interested in a fish only tank. I'm sure you all would recommend highly I use a hospital tank to treat for ich and other types of desease. I do have a 10 gallon, but would it still be necessary now that I will be treating main tank with copper already?
A few questions:
1. What would be a good brand to use?
2. How do you use copper, is it easy?
3. Does copper need to kept at a certain level?
4. Does this type of treatment require frequent water testing?
5. What other good things does copper do other than killing ich?
6. If the benificial bacteria is suppose to keep the amonia nitrites etc. at zero what will then happen when I use copper since copper will kill those beneficial bacteria? will my amonia etc. then shoot up now? if thats so, how do the fish stores do it?
Sorry for the many questions. Thanks very much for any help.
Jon

 

[daniel411]

Welcome to the board.
Since you've researched and know that most people (on this board atleast) are against the use of copper, especially in display tanks, I won't debate your stance.
I can't answer your questions as I've never "personally" used copper for treatment. I will ask this though. Since you have a hospital/spare aquarium. Why don't you quarantine new fish for 3-4 weeks, to prevent ich from ever getting into your aquarium?

 

[audiophile]

Hi,
>Why don't you quarantine new fish for 3-4 weeks, to prevent ich from ever getting into your aquarium?
It was too late already because I just bought the 10 gallon just recently. ich was already in the tank. Thanks

 

[cincyreefer]

I don't recommend copper in a display tank... it can be hard to get out. Most LFS that I know don't use copper in their tanks. I have found that it can/will kill dwarf angels and seems to cause HLLE in tangs rather quicky. If you are already planning on getting rid of your inverts and willing to kill your LR and LS, then I would research Hypo at the top of the page. You will have much better results.

 

[beth]

Copper is definately not the solution. In fact, it is nearly obsolute in its use in the hobby, and considering its effects on fish and display tanks, I say thank goodness.
Quarantine is your only answer. If you are wasting money, then stop doing it. For $100 or LESS you can set up a quarantine tank and never have to worry about your fish or your tank catching anything or being contaminated by chemicals.

 

[audiophile]

I really appreciate the help you guys. I do have a 10 gallon tank but just needs setup. I do not have any live rock and I don't plan on getting any.
I bought Curpramine copper last night and it says it will not contaminate the filter bed and I guess that means my sandbed? If thats true I would like to use it to kill all living ich in the tank and then get rid of the copper as the directions on the bottle says, by the use of carbon. Is there another way to kill all the ich in the tank? I read that you can leave a tank fishless and they will eventually die. But then I heard a few more stories here or on another board where some left the tank fishless for months and when he added a fish that has been quarentined he saw ich the next day. I really have no idea how to get rid of them suckers. I do understand the stress being put on fishes when using copper, but what if I was to use just half the recommended dosage, will that keep the ich in control and at same time being very less stressfull on the fish?
Thanks in advance
Jon

 

[daniel411]

Running carbon in your filter will not remove copper. Removing all copper is nearly impossible. Basically it requires a complete tear down of your aquarium. Washing, scrubbing, all equipment, glass, etc. Useing all new substrate. Even than, there still could be trace amounts of copper.
Ich has a 3-4 week life cycle, if I remember right. Its been mentioned that it "may" be possible for ich to go into a dormant status for longer periods of time. I've never seen any literature "confirm" that though.

 

[elfdoctors]

Carbon will remove minimal amounts of any elemental copper. Some carbon products have the carbon bound to an organic base which can be removed by carbon. Unfortunately, bacteria which are not killed off by the copper (like the ones in the sand bed) can convert the copper from organic to inorganic and then it will be stuck there forever and no beneficial invertebrates will be able to thrive.
Treating the tank with half strength copper would only increase the chance that the ich survives. Then you would have ich still in the tank and some poisons still in your tank. Medications must be dosed properly for the condition.
Leaving the tank fishless and doing hyposalinity worked well for me. I'd recommend doing this.

 

[elfdoctors]

Originally posted by elfdoctors
Some carbon products have the carbon bound to an organic base which can be removed by carbon. .
Oops! :nope:
That should have read: Some COPPER products have the COPPER bound to an organic base which can be removed by carbon.

 

[audiophile]

nt