Do I need a sifter, shifter, stirrer, swizzle stick, roto rooter

[spanko]

Threads seem to be popping up about peoples sand beds. Some are dirty, some have algae, or other mysterious unwanted things happening. It seem, probably human nature, to want to find some critter, since that is why we have tanks, to take care of the problem. Most don't seem to want to attack what the real, in most cases, root cause is. This can range from many things, to much livestock pooping in our pools, over feeding, lack of flow, insufficient filtration, etc. etc. etc.That aside I think that people that are looking past the obvious, to me, fixes to the problems they for the most part are encountering, should have some understanding of the title subjects. (hee hee maybe with the exception of the swizzle sticks and roto rooter)
Sand Sifters
These are critters that derive their food from sifting through the sand looking for the flora and fauna that reside there. In most all cases they need large tanks. Read min 50 gallons and above with a lot of live rock and maybe a fuge to help to replenish what is being consumed. These fish, starfish etc. will quickly decimate the available food source and most will starve from lack of replenishment of these food stuffs.
Sand Shifters and Stirrers
Now these are the critters that IMO should be a normal part of any CUC that is needed in a tank with substrate. They are the ones that are crawling around on, in, and under the substrate looking for, depending on the critter, meaty dead material, or vegetable type material either live or dead for their food. All the while moving, stirring, shifting the sand around which helps to get the smaller matter back into the water column to allow mechanical filtration to remove it from the tank or even better yet get it flying around so that the coral can take advantage of eating it as well.
This is my opinion. I am putting this out there so that we can open up some discussion on it and welcome any and all to join in.

 

[meowzer]

Good info., Henry.....
Maybe we could put examples...like snails that are sand cleaners..such as cerith and nassarius...also mention the fighting conch (which I have in a bag..LOL) and what they do.

 

[spanko]

Good idea Lois, maybe if people come and read here they can start to do that.
In other news maybe there are folks here that can help with some other members.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/359799/sand-sifting-gobies
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/359787/whats-a-good-sand-sifter
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/359799/sand-sifting-gobies

 

[fishkid13]

Nice Henry.

 

[loopy101]

yes thanks great thread and perfect timing! just getting ready to make out a order on SWF on sand sifters and a few other critters.

 

[tiny]

What would be some other examples? Would a Diamond Goby be good? Is it necessary to syphon the substrate even with a sifter?

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by Tiny
http:///forum/post/3061376
What would be some other examples? Would a Diamond Goby be good? Is it necessary to syphon the substrate even with a sifter?
A diamond goby is good....you should not have to clean the sand if you have the right amount of CUC

 

[sepulatian]

A diamond goby will sift your entire sand bed and rearrange as he goes. Be sure that your rock is securely placed on the glass and not on top of the sand or you may have an avalanche. By adding these larger, as apposed to natural sand sifters (pods, worms, etc.) animals, they are likely to eat your natural sand sifters. Nothing does the job like natural sand sifters do...

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3061004
It seem, probably human nature, to want to find some critter, since that is why we have tanks, to take care of the problem. Most don't seem to want to attack what the real, in most cases, root cause is. :
Agreed 100%
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3061004
Now these are the critters that IMO should be a normal part of any CUC that is needed in a tank with substrate.

I have a problem with the word needed. There's always those of us that find any CUC unnecessary. Unless you count pods/worms/etc part of the CUC.

 

[spanko]

Originally Posted by aquaknight
I have a problem with the word needed. There's always those of us that find any CUC unnecessary. Unless you count pods/worms/etc part of the CUC.
Point well taken. Please do some more explanation here for others on your particular circumstances. DSB- SSB do you have a completely clean and white sandbed like some would want to achieve or is some "dirtiness" as part of the overall scheme okay with you?
By the way I would count pods, worms, etc. part of a CUC and this is why I would caution those with smaller tanks to stay away from sifters that would decimate those critters.

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3061467
Point well taken. Please do some more explanation here for others on your particular circumstances. DSB- SSB do you have a completely clean and white sandbed like some would want to achieve or is some "dirtiness" as part of the overall scheme okay with you?
By the way I would count pods, worms, etc. part of a CUC and this is why I would caution those with smaller tanks to stay away from sifters that would decimate those critters.
Will do.
Many of us keep fish that simply do not allow your typical CUC. Triggers, puffers, large wrasses, etc, would go to town on your average snails, crabs, hermits, etc. I personally find it sooooooo disheartening to read the same old line many, many times; "I love __ fish, but he would eat my CUC, and I absolutely need them."
It is my opinion that a successful tank can be run without a CUC. Good filtration, frequent water changes, and some types excess removal (fuge, ATS. phos reactor) is a must.
My personal situation on my 125gal, is I have a big skimmer on my tank (Aqua C EV240), really strong flow (60x turnover), and a host of supplemental filtration. I run an algae turf scrubber, a 29gal refugium, and UV. Water changes are 15gals weekly.
I have a 4.5"-5" DSB in the display. For the most part I have what I call a 'clean tank.' The sand gets an occasional brown dusting, and the glass gets a hard green algae build-up I have to scrape off weekly. I attribute this to the large bay window that's adjacent to the tank. I am currently finishing up battling a hair algae outbreak that resulted from the Halides timer failing and causing the lights to stay on for 72hours straight.
I have tried hermits and snails. I only have one large zebra turbo left. I also have a tuxedo urchin that eats coralline, and a CBS shrimp. Both will be gone once my Lei Trigger goes in.

 

[spanko]

Good stuff, thanx for sharing it. There are a number of folks out there that are battling some algae. As always the explanation has been to reduce nutrient and check lighting age a photoperiod. Your post has reinforced this with the discussion of the filtering you have. Thanx for helping to point that out.
Again though hopefully this thread will help those that want the additional critter clean up to understand or at lease research more the sand sifting opposed to shiftingstirring.
Keep it coming folks, good stuff here.

 

[fishkid13]

How good are sand sifting stars and what are their requirements?

 

[spanko]

Sand sifting stars are extremely good at what they do. What do they do you may ask? Even if you didn't I will try to relate it to you. "They can decimate the biota in a live sand bed very quickly...and left to starve as a result." "This in itself is not good for your tank, but bodes even worse for the starfish. Unless your tank is large (125g or more) with a mature DSB, this animal will likely starve to death within a year."

 

[fishkid13]

I just got a 135. So how long should the tank be going before adding a SS star? Could you have other sand things with them? Like a dimonde goby or something?

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by fishkid13
http:///forum/post/3061867
I just got a 135. So how long should the tank be going before adding a SS star? Could you have other sand things with them? Like a dimonde goby or something?
You probably ought to wait minimum 6 months...maybe even longer...and you don't want too many sand cleaners....you want some of the good stuff to remain in the sand, and these guys eat all of it

 

[hlcroghan]

This is a good thread. These two types of creatures can be confusing to the average aquarium keeper.....