Do I really need to Wait???

coralreeferrn

New Member
This is my first saltwater tank.....I recently took over a 14 gallon biocube that I bought from someone. It already had live cured sand and some saltwater left in it with some pink algae. I bought cured rock for it. It has only been up and running for a week. I have done chem tests at home and everything was normal. I added a damsel and a clean-up crew. They have been doing fine. I am still taking daily chem tests. I am wanting to add a clownfish and a anemone but is it too soon? The person that I have been talking to at the LFS said I needed to wait 3 months before everything would level out. But I have not seen any fluctuations at all yet. I don't want to spend the extra money on the more expensive and less hardy animals if they won't survive? Please give me some advice!!!
 

salt210

Active Member
as you have probably read patience is key in this hobby. most say that one should only add an anemone after at least 6 months of the tank running. don't judge the life of another animal on the fact that the damsel is surviving. those things are very hardy. welcome to the hobby and board by the way
 

hefner413

Active Member
first, I would get rid of the damsel. They can be the most aggressive fish in the trade. Mine would fight with my yellow tang and my clowns like they were half it's size.
Regarding the cycle - you might be ok, but it's usually best to go slow. You don't need to wait 3 months, but I would wait about 4-5 wks. You don't need to test daily, just every few to see trends. If you have a cycle, the ammonia will go up first, then nitrites, then nitrates. Once nitrates are zero, then you're completely done with a cycle. But with an established tank, you may not ever have a cycle. Either way, better safe than sorry, thus the recommendation to wait. Good luck! Post some pics!
 

coralreeferrn

New Member
Thanks for the welcome! Patience is a virtue..one that I lack and need to work on. I guess this new hobby will help me with that
 

peterpaul

Member
be patient with the hobby. it is worth the wait. it seems to be that your tank is a little mature since you did not really start from scratch but even then your tank will go through another mini cycle of its own. your lfs is right not to add anything else until the water stabalize. would suggest not to add an anemone until at least a year for the tank to fully mature. also given the size of your tank it might be a little difficult to keep an anemone
 

mie

Active Member
If you have an established sand bed and cured rock your tank will not go through a cycle. The trick is knowing that your lfs rock is cured, some say they do but do not.
Keep an eye on your ammonia levels, As for the damsel they can be pretty brutal to newcomers but usually calm down after a day or two.
Good luck.
 

yearofthenick

Active Member
Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but isn't most of the ammonia and trite eating backteria in the sand and the rock? I agree that aged water is very important in the stability of the tank, but how much aged water was in the tank when you first got it? are we talking a small layer at the bottom or was it like half full of aged water? Even if it was just half full of aged water, you should be fine.
I have a 14 gallon biocube for my daughter and it's a good little tank. I got it with the protein skimmer... for another $40, it does a good job of keeping the water clean, but I would strongly recommend you put some kind of filter right next to where the water goes into the trickle area in the back... I replace that filter about twice a month, and it picks up a lot of garbage that would otherwise be settling in my sand bed. If you want to keep an anemone, you want good filtration and better flow. I had to upgrade the powerhead on my 14 gallon because it wasn't blowing enough water around. Just giving you something to consider.... it's not necessary, but the anemone will most likely want better water flow since he's a filter feeder.
Being a 14 gallon tank for my daughter, she had to have nemo with a home... so I have a small long tentacle anemone and baby percula in there, both of which are doing well. I think a big concern about keeping an anemone in a 14 gallon is that the temperature will fluctuate and could stress the anemone out... he could crawl all over your tank if he's not happy... and you want him happy. If you have any other coral in there, he could start a stinging war with them since he roams around (corals and anemones should never touch), causing futher stress, and it scars everyone (scars take a little while to heal - not long though).
But if you keep this anemone happy, and host him with a percula or ocellaris, then he shouldn't move much.
OK, so long story short - To keep an anemone in your 14 gallon:
1. TEMPERATURE! Don't let it fluctuate - If you keep the temp in your house colder, you could throw another heater in there (cheap way to help keep the water temp stable) Also, 99% of the aquarium heaters on the market are fully waterproof, so if need be, you can fully submerse them somewhere in the back chamber (for a cleaner look) or put one on each side in the back of the main part of the tank. The biocube you have came with a 50-watt heater, which should do the job if your house temp rarely drops below 65. Your tank should be kept somewhere in between 78-82 degrees, but pick a temp within that range and keep it there. It should not fluctuate, even in between 78-82,
2. Water Flow - Normally flow shouldn't be a problem, but if your biocube is anything like mine was when I first got it, then you'd have better luck with a 90-year old man blowing water through a straw than using the stock water pump. The anemone just wants a spot in wake of the powerhead somewhere and he should be happy if he gets movement, so keep that in mind when considering rock placement, and ultimately anemone placement
3. Feeding - Some of the people on here will tell you to target feed an anemone, but I don't do that with either of mine (I have multiple tanks with an anemone in each). In fact, you could kill your anemone because of over feeding. The best way to tell if you're overfeeding your anemone is if he hides behind rocks. Usually they hide behind rocks to do one of two things: Split and become two anemone's, or die. If you have a clown, he'll bring some food to the anemone (not literally bring food and throw it up on the anemone, although that would be awesome if it did actually happen, but the clown serves as a contributory part of the anemone's diet, eating bacteria and parasites off the clown). You need to throw some Zoo/phyto in the tank once a week for him to filter out. The LFS will give you the right stuff and it should be in bottle form - use brightwell aquatics stuff - best on the market and at a good price. If you did that, he'd be really happy.
4. Health - when you go to the store to buy this anemone, ask to look at the anemone's mouth. It needs to be tightly shut... if his mouth is open then he's not doing well. It's also good to ask the store clerk to show you the anemone's mouth because that means the store clerk has to touch the anemone, and when he does, the anemone should react quickly to human contact... meaning if he immediately starts to close up, then he's healthy... if he kind of just floats around like a dead fish, then that means he's a dead fish. The tentacles should be full of water and he should be fully open in the tank at the store (like mine in the pic below). When you bring him home, he may look deflated on the first day, but should be fully opened again by the second day.
 

yearofthenick

Active Member
A lot of people suggest waiting 6 months for the tank to really settle and establish, but you are an exception I think... if the only new thing in your tank is, say, 70% new water, then I don't think you'll get a cycle. If I were you, I'd make sure I can keep the temp stable, and if you go two weeks without any rise in ammonia or nitrite (AND I MEAN A CONSTANT 0 for ammonia and nitrite), then go get yourself an anemone and clown. Some stores will have paired clowns and anemone's already, and even if they might charge you a bit more for that, it's worth every penny... I've tried a number of times to pair anemone's and have been unsuccessful... the only way I did it was by paying for the paired anemone/clown at the store. If you want to keep a percula or ocellaris, get a long tentacle anemone. I have a pic of mine below... he rocks!
And please, get rid of the damsel! They're like the rats of the hobby. You'll soon find that as you add fish to your tank, the damsel will pick on them, because it's his territory. Some species of damsel are better community fish than others, but get some chromis - they should be the same price as the damsel, and have gorgeous green/blue coloration. Most fish stores will take back damsels, but won't give you a refund. It's better to give back a damsel than to flush him.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for reading my novel.
 

yearofthenick

Active Member
Also, Peterpaul does have a point. Patience is needed in this hobby. If you go 2-3 weeks and on the very last day your ammonia goes from 0 to .25, then you neeeeeeed wait at least another month. Think of it this way... The anemones are very sensitive, and he will die if you put him in a tank mid-cycle. Although you really want him and he's really cool, it's not going to matter in a month if he's dead, and then you're out $50, destroying life in the process. Some of the more apathetic hobbyists will tell you that it's about the money and you can get another one, which is true, but if we didn't truly appreciate and value the lives of fish and corals in this hobby, then why did we get into it in the first place? It's like spending lots of money on a beautiful piece of art and then burning it. If you love the hobby enough, you'll be responsible, and I'm confident that you'll make the right choices. But if you go a solid 2-3 weeks without ANY rise in ANY level, then go have some fun at the fish store... get yourself that anemone.
 

coralreeferrn

New Member
Thanks for the novel...good reading!!
I was interested in the bubble tip anemone..I will ask my LFS if they could get the the clown/anemone pair in for me. After long talks with them they have told me they could order me anything I wanted..just ask. I will be sure to bring your tips in when I do finally purchase them! I have been keeping a close eye on my levels. They have remained at zero. I plan on watching them for a few more weeks. When I got the tank it was about half full of water and the guy had just broken it down. As far as the yellow tailed blue damsel goes---I had planned on turning the little guy into the LFS when I purchased my clown. I did forget to mention in my initial post I did place a lemon goby in the tank after the damsel and the damsel has not bothered him at all. Does this mean I got a peaceful damsel?
 

dragonzim

Active Member
What kind of lighting is on this tank? Unless its got T5 or MH's getting an anemone is not a good idea. They have very high lighting requirements.
 

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/2683404
What kind of lighting is on this tank? Unless its got T5 or MH's getting an anemone is not a good idea. They have very high lighting requirements.
It's 2x24 pwercompacts with actinics. not an ideal environment, but remember it's a tiny tank... even if you put a 150w MH in there, you'd still fry everything. we're talking 14 inches of depth here.
 

yearofthenick

Active Member
I had a yellow tailed damsel that came with my biocube when I bought it and he was fine for a while with my other fish, but then he started fighting with my percula. This was after weeks of peaceful co-existing... something just happened to him and he got mean for no apparent reason. I'd just keep an eye on him. If he starts causing trouble then take him back!!! lol
Some people on these forums are going to kill me for telling you this, but if your tank was half full of aged tank water, and you put cured rock in, and you've had it a week without any problems, Then if I were you, I'd take the gamble and start adding stuff to it, because the stakes aren't as high as everyone thinks. With cured rock, aged sand and half a tank of aged water, I think you're good to go right now, but don't over do it. I'd lose the damsel to replace his bioload with whatever else you're putting in there.
*dodging lightning bolts from other users of this forum*
 

hlcroghan

Active Member
Wow, what a great post! That is one of the most detailed on the spot answers from anyone that I have every heard!! Thank you so much!!
 

hefner413

Active Member
what causes a spike or cycle is an increase in waste and thus ammonia - which causes the cycle. Like Yearofthenick said, if you have an pre-established tank, you will likely have no cycle if you don't have any increase in waste. This is b/c you already have the aerobic/anaerobic bacteria established. But if you would have an increase in waste - then you would have some level of a cycle. Some examples that you might worry about:
1. Say that some of the rock was exposed to air if the tank was only half full - then you will have die-off on the rock and thus more waste.
2. If the sand was mixed up at all, then you can have a release in toxins, causing die off and then a cycle.
3. If the rock you added was cured, then there should be little die off on it, but many times you do have some die off with cured rock - and thus a small cycle.
So overall, if you think you really haven't had much die off or increase in waste, then you probably won't have much of a cycle and would likely be fine if you add fish. The risk you take is that if you add fish now and then a cycle happens, then the spike happens, you fish could suffer/die.
TO HELP prevent this, a few things to do -
1. keep water ready for a water change to help remove ammonia,etc if you see a spike
2. keep ammo lock in case of a spike
3. add fish slowly - more fish = more waste --> more likely a spike/cycle
 

yearofthenick

Active Member
Hefner, I knew we'd get along...
Hefner is right in that you need to watch your bioload. Don't overdo it... add 1-2 livestock and see how the tank handles the ammonia levels. It's why I suggested you return the damsel... he poops... and if you lose him and add two fish, then it's technically only one additional fish's worth of poop the tank has to worry about
 

stanlalee

Active Member
If your rock is from the pet store (which usually means not too far removed from the ocean) even though its cured doesn't mean stuff in it isn't dying. Cured just means your biofilter is established enough to handle whats dying/living. It probably takes even more than 6 months for some sort of equalibrium of whats going to die off and whats going to live/flurish in/on the liverock so its still a good idea to wait a while on any prized livestock. the stuff that dies off might not be measurably harmful but harmful none the less (ie: "my fish died, everything seemed fine. water levels were great"). you should probably throw in some hardy cheap corals and see how that goes for a while before doing more involved livestock.
If you want to go the non waiting route buy some liverock and sand from a well established tank thats gone thru all that already (and dont mess it up in the transport and aquarium care which puts you back to square one).
 

yearofthenick

Active Member
Yeah, I wanted to ask you coralreeferRN... where did you get your live rock? And what is this stores reasoning which would qualify them to call it "cured"?
To give an example, my LFS (Local fish store) sells live rock, and they only sell it as "cured" if it's been in the midst of their filtration systems for 3 months... they have this enormous bin about the size of a 6 person hot tub with a protein skimmer the size of a commercial garbage can inside of it... along with a ton (no pun intended) of live rock, which they use for their biological filtration. They add only a little rock at a time to this bin, and separate it by putting it in the back. Overstock live rock is kept in the back and also has been cured.
I know another LFS that just put the live rock which is shipped directly from the wholesaler (uncured) in their display tanks and sell them as people buy them... they call it "cured" but that's just because it's in water. It's those kinds of fish stores you should avoid because this does happen. The rocks cause an ammonia spike in their tanks, and all of the fish (which you're purchasing) are in the midst of enduring this ammonia spike. I rarely give this store my business, except when my favored stores are out of what I'm looking for.
 
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