Drilled Overflow....and other ideas.

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fishhugger

Guest
Ok, as most of you know I am in cost saving mode now...but I would still really like to setup some sort of sump, and I have a few ideas but I am not sure how well they are going to work.
My first thought was to try and use a canister filter AS my return pump. I really have my doubts about this....because when the tank is empty of water, the water in the canisters input and output tubes levels off with each other....so I am kind of assuming that the only reason the canister has the ability to return the water to the height that it is set at (about 4') is because of the assistance it gets from the weight of the water in the input tube. My thought is that if the input tube were to be at sump level and the output at tank level, the water pressure would drop off WAY too much, or the filter wont be able to return the water at all.
But I cant say this from experience....that makes sense to me, but I wont know for sure unless someone tells me.
My canister is basically a marineland c-220, but half the cost. It is one of those oriental knockoffs, but so far so good....and believe it or not, it did have good reviews from all around the web.
If I am going to setup a sump I would much rather have the peace of mind of having a drilled overflow. I know what tools to use, how to do it, and what sizes for all the parts. I dont know which size hole I actually want though. I was thinking of just doing a one 1" hole in the back pannel, upper center of the tank.
My plan after that was to use some sort of specimen container (something that doesn't have ANY sort of hole in it already), use a dremel to cut some teeth into it to make a surface skimmer. I would use the same diameter hole saw on the back of it. Apply a fair amount of silicone to the back of it, line up the holes, and send the bulk head through the tank and the plastic container. Maybe add a few clamps to ensure a good seal.
I was wondering if anyone has done anything like this before, and if it was really noisy or not, and how I could possibly reduce the sound.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Do I understand this...you want to run a canister filter...one pipe goes out to your tank and the input goes into the sump tank and to keep the water drained to fill the sump tank you want to drill a hole???
Well, and remember I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination...The flow from the tank must match the input from the canister or you drain the tank too fast. Which is what I think will happen. A canister filter just doesn't put out that fast.
 
F

fishhugger

Guest
The first part is correct. The second part....not so much. The overflow can only put out as much gph as what is being put into it. If at the 4' height a pump returns water at 400GPH, and your overflow allows 600gph, only 400gph will be 'overflowing'
But I dont think the canister filter idea would work, but only because without the weight of the water on the intake tube, I dont think the canister would be able to return the water.

Please do not post rude things like that....we do not threaten people here
(Meowzer)
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member

Well test it...get your spare tank and using the kitchen sink to mimick your tank..set it up and see how well it does. just run a flex hose from the sink tap to mimick your over flow and put the return hose from the canister into the sink. It isn't a true test of how things flow but I think it will tell you at least if the caniser can do the job. What else do you have to do today?
 
F

fishhugger

Guest
Are you implying that I have no life!!?...cause your not too far off then =P
I was just hoping that someone could tell me if it would work or not, because even though there is no tank in the water, the intake and output tubes are filled up to almost the top of the tank. I dont want to ruin that and have to reprime then....its a pain.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHugger http:///forum/thread/382820/drilled-overflow-and-other-ideas#post_3343551
Are you implying that I have no life!!?...cause your not too far off then =P
I was just hoping that someone could tell me if it would work or not, because even though there is no tank in the water, the intake and output tubes are filled up to almost the top of the tank. I dont want to ruin that and have to reprime then....its a pain.

Nothing is open today...so there is nothig to do but nurse a headache if you have one. Playing test the idea seemed like a good pastime.
 
F

fishhugger

Guest
If only that were true....walmarts open....had to work last night....have to work tonight, UGH...
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Off the top of my head I would say it's a bad idea.....I think you'll have an issue with the canister being consistent with being used as a return pump, but as suggested you could test the idea....Just because your in cost savings mode why try negating the use of a return pump? You don't have to spend tons of cash on a return pump or buy all your equipment in 1 shot........Key is be smart with your purchases, and do your research and buy 1 time instead of settling for 2nd best and then later upgrading equipment.
 
F

fishhugger

Guest
The idea here was to be able to setup up a sump before I start cycling, and then I can buy a real pump later, I guess I'll give it a try....worst case scenario, I wait 2 months and then buy a good pump....I honestly dont think the canister will work though, I think the input has to be a similar height to the output in order for the canister to work.
Any thoughts on drilling the tank though?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHugger http:///forum/thread/382820/drilled-overflow-and-other-ideas#post_3343634
I guess I'll give it a try....worst case scenario, I wait 2 months and then buy a good pump....
Any thoughts on drilling the tank though?

I want a sump/refugium for my seahorse tank..I am going to get a CPR overflow like what I have on my 90g. I am using a Fluval 305 canister filter for now until I can afford to buy each piece and switch it all over.....sounds like you must do the same except you are brave enough to drill.
 
F

fishhugger

Guest
They dont call me the brave little FishHugger for nothing.....actually I'm quit intimidated of this process....but everything I have EVER read or watched says its incredibly easy, it just looks intimidating.
There's a mass amount of guides on how to do it, and they are ALL the same, so it's pretty straight forward.
The only thing im concerned about is the flow rate...which I guess is supposed to be 600gph, but I would like some verification on that. Also concerned about the noise level, and how well a large specimen box would work as the surface skimmer being built the way I mentioned.
Also I think I am going to paint the back of my tank (BLACK) >.< But I think I might want to paint the sides of the tank also....im not sure how it would look?
The reason being that the tank is very close to my door on one side and I dont want to spook my fish, the other side of the tank is prone to light coming through a window, even though the window is facing north and doesnt get TOO much light, I dont want it to be a potential problem.
are their any pros or cons to painting 3 sides of a tank?
 
K

k916

Guest
the pro's are that you'll have less algae to scrape off
the con is that you'll have 3 less sides to view the fish from
 
al&burke

al&burke

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHugger http:///forum/thread/382820/drilled-overflow-and-other-ideas#post_3343648
They dont call me the brave little FishHugger for nothing.....actually I'm quit intimidated of this process....but everything I have EVER read or watched says its incredibly easy, it just looks intimidating.
There's a mass amount of guides on how to do it, and they are ALL the same, so it's pretty straight forward.
The only thing im concerned about is the flow rate...which I guess is supposed to be 600gph, but I would like some verification on that. Also concerned about the noise level, and how well a large specimen box would work as the surface skimmer being built the way I mentioned.
Also I think I am going to paint the back of my tank (BLACK) >.< But I think I might want to paint the sides of the tank also....im not sure how it would look?
The reason being that the tank is very close to my door on one side and I dont want to spook my fish, the other side of the tank is prone to light coming through a window, even though the window is facing north and doesnt get TOO much light, I dont want it to be a potential problem.
are their any pros or cons to painting 3 sides of a tank?
I just set up a FW system used 1" drains for a pump rated at 750 GPH - it works fine. 1" is more than enough. Also as i stated before a back up drain is always nice just in case. Good luck
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Drilling the tank is super easy as you had stated. Not sure what you mean about the overflow box? As far as noise level depends alot on how you go about your plumbing.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHugger http:///forum/thread/382820/drilled-overflow-and-other-ideas#post_3343648
They dont call me the brave little FishHugger for nothing.....actually I'm quit intimidated of this process....but everything I have EVER read or watched says its incredibly easy, it just looks intimidating.
There's a mass amount of guides on how to do it, and they are ALL the same, so it's pretty straight forward.
The only thing im concerned about is the flow rate...which I guess is supposed to be 600gph, but I would like some verification on that. Also concerned about the noise level, and how well a large specimen box would work as the surface skimmer being built the way I mentioned.
Also I think I am going to paint the back of my tank (BLACK) >.< But I think I might want to paint the sides of the tank also....im not sure how it would look?
The reason being that the tank is very close to my door on one side and I dont want to spook my fish, the other side of the tank is prone to light coming through a window, even though the window is facing north and doesnt get TOO much light, I dont want it to be a potential problem.
are their any pros or cons to painting 3 sides of a tank?
Don't be intimidated about drilling the tank.....If you seen the process it's not much to it....Just remember to keep the area flooded and cool with water, and go slow....let the bit do the work; don't force it.....
Flow rate is dependent on what size hole you drill. If you go with the standard 1" bulkhead your about 600gph....As you step up in bulkhead size you increase your flow capacity......There is a calculator on the other forum that you could use to determine what size bulkhead you'd need and how big of an overflow box you'd need. What size tank are we talking about? What size sump?
I did a setup with 2 sides painted and don't see any issue with doing the sides and back.....That just means you will only have the main viewing panel to see into.....
 
F

fishhugger

Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/382820/drilled-overflow-and-other-ideas#post_3343749
Drilling the tank is super easy as you had stated. Not sure what you mean about the overflow box? As far as noise level depends alot on how you go about your plumbing.
The overflow box will just be a clear 'large' specimen container with a hole drilled into it. I want to cut teeth into it to control the water level and to keep anything out of the drain. The plan was to put the bulk head through both the specimen container and the glass. I wasnt sure if this would potentially allow for any leaks between the speciment container and the glass. I planned using a thin layer of silicone on the back of the specimen container to assist in holding it in place, and also do a bead around the edge of the container to further prevent any leakage.
I just wasnt sure it I am overthinking this, or if there is an easier way to do this.
Also I was going to paint the front and side of the specimen container black to hid the bulk head.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
I think you'd be fine applying a very thin layer of silicone to the back of the specimen container.....I would think rolling it out nice and even with a foam roller brush would be best and then use the bulkhead to pull it tight against the tank wall. I agree I would run a bead of silicone along the sides and bottom once it's locked into place with the bulkhead. Don't apply or use any silicone around the bulkhead though.....
As far as painting the container Krylon Fushion paint is perfectly safe, and really rough up the inside area your going to paint to get the paint to stick. I know the instructions say no need but trust me on scuffing it up.....
 
F

fishhugger

Guest
Cool, I will definitely keep that in mind :)
However I was planning on painting the outside of the specimen container, not the inside....but does it really matter?
And can I use the krylon fusion spray paint to paint the back of my tank? The only thing I know about painting glass is that your supposed to clean it off really. I painted the back of a 10G with regular $1 spray paint without excessive cleaning, and that turned out alright at best, but I want better then just alright =P.....I was thinking of using a little PVC primer on a paper towel and wiping down the glass. I really don't know how practical that is, but I used PVC primer for the first time and realized that it took the black letters right off the PVC

I was also thinking of attempting to use it to get the adhesive residue from a stick-on thermometer off the front of my tank.
Man...if only true wisdom is knowing that I know nothing, I must be some sort of genius.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
I just suggested painting the inside of the container, because the outside is going to see more abuse.....Either way both would work....I would just scuff either side really well before painting......
I've painted tanks both ways with spray cans and latex paint from a can. I prefer to roll the paint on rather than spray, but depending on color I guess. Both ways were perfect, but just seemed easier with roll on since I was doing it inside the house and didn't want any over spray. As far as cleaning the glass prior, I would stick with the traditional wash it down really well, I then wiped the entire glass surface down with alcohol. Never had any issues with it sticking. Honestly never heard about using PVC primer, but alcohol is cheaper.
 
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