DSB or Undergravel filter?

[goobernif]

i'm curiuos about pros and cons of undergravel filters with a crushed coral or coral sand bed as opposed to a deep sand bed. which is better for lr? for filtration?
i have an ug with coral sand, prizm protien skimmer, eheim canister filter. i am contemplating making a new 150 g tank and am looking for advice. i've done sw for about a year now, not lost too many fish, although my blueleg hermit systematically destroyed all of my scarlets... mean bugger. and my mandarine died just a few days ago.... *sob* other than that the Yellow Tang, Flame angel, 3 blue reef chromis, lawnmower and scooter blenny, coral banded, peppermint, and fire shrimp are all fine.
well, yeah, so what's the downside of my filtration?

 

[007]

In my opinion, UGF are old technology. They trap detritus, are laborsome to take care of properly, and in comparison with advances made, are less effective.
A DSB has several advantages. Instead of just "removing" the waste as a UGF will, a DSB will actually break it down into its organic compounds such as free nitroge.
Plus, a DSB looks more like a natural reef bottom IMO.
However there are some conflicting opinions out there on this subject so be sure you read all the details and decide for yourself if its the way to go.
If it were me, I would do a bare bottom display tank and run a refugium with a DSB. This way, the DSB can swapped out after a couple years time or if there are any problems.

 

[fender]

Another vote for DSB. Looks much better and has many advantages over the UGF.

 

[irish pride]

I would definately runa dsb over a ugf. 007 made a good point about it breaking down and releasing unwanted waste. A ugf might actually produce results you want over a short period of time . But will cause you more problems and time if you actually comtinue it's use. Eventually you will probably want to remove it and that is a pain in the a$$.

 

[goobernif]

thanks for the 411. ok, next question where do i buy ls? is it better to buy most of it at HD and then get a few pounds of live sand to "seed" the bed? what are you humble opinions?

 

[kreach]

If you can afford to buy all live sand to create your sand bed, that is ideal. However, doing it that way can be very expensive.
As a more cost effective solution, you can use sand from Home Depot (southdown or argonite is recommended) for most of your sand and just use a bag or two of LS to seed it. Live rock will also help seed your sand bed.
Hope this helps!

 

[dcel22]

I am new myself but at my LFS I have seen that they sell LS by the pound. I too am thinking about getting some southdown playsand from home depot but I am probably just gonna try seeding mine with 30 lbs of live rock...I don't know if I am of much help but like I said, I am new too.

 

[007]

Originally posted by Goobernif
thanks for the 411. ok, next question where do i buy ls? is it better to buy most of it at HD and then get a few pounds of live sand to "seed" the bed? what are you humble opinions?
Bingo . . . look for southdown or aragonite based sand then seed it with a scoop from a friend or LFS. Dont waste your money on all LS.

 

[jp0379]

Heres what we did. In our 55 gallon, we used 20 lbs of southdown (playsand, same thing) and 25 lbs. of livesand, which costs 25 bucks for a 25 lb. bag. Eight weeks later, it was ready to go. I paid 30 bucks for it all, as opposed to 50 bucks for 50 lbs of livesand, and it worked just as well.

 

[irish pride]

If you decide to go with play sand use caution. Most that stuff is full of silicates and will cause you huge problems. Southdown comes highly recommended but is not readily available in all areas. It would be better for you if you could not find silicate free play sand to just by dead sand from the LFS.
And Im not sure if you are as anal about how your tank looks as I am but, I would watch so that the grain is about the same. I once set up a tank and used a bunch of dead argonite and then seeded it with a fine grain LS. All the fine grain sunk below the argonite and it drove me nuckin' futs!!!

 

[thomas712]

Check the thread "Undergravel filters...Please advise" by Tracellamints or something like that. This will give you some answers to UGF's against and for the device. Look for the post by me Thomas712 against UGF and Lesleybird's for the UGf.
Thomas

 

[goobernif]

ok, so i have about 50# lr in my 55... so i'll need 4-6 inches of sand for a good dsb? more or less? how large should a refugium be if i wanted to add one inside my stand?
if i do go refugium, then should i have a shallow sand bed in the main tank? i don't like the idea of just painting the bottom...
like previously stated i too am sick of the crushed coral look and am looking into something more natural.
also, what kind of critters do i add if any to my new system?
and, how about Quartz sand? any bad things there? and avoid anything with silica right?

 

[thomas712]

Last question first because it bugs me the most, this almost sounds like a trick question.
What about quartz sand? but stay away from silica?
Very Generally speaking Silica sand, lets say industrial style is a high purity quartz (SiO2) sand. Silica is a stable compound and will not leach silicates into your tank for it has no "sillicates" in it. Depending on its chemical and physical characteristics, silica sand is used as glass sand, foundry sand, abrasives ..etc. Silica sand can contain tiny amounts of impurities, such as iron, manganese, chromium, calcium, or aluminum, and give the sand its color depending on how much of these impurities are contained within. If you are going to use silica sand look for white silica sand as it is much more aesthetically pleasing. Many have used silica sand, its just that they find it is not as white as aragonite sand and they just don't like it.
As far as critters most often all you will need to do is add live rock to your system and you'll get critters.. .like the pods, worms and such.
Sure if you go with a fuge then by all means use a shallow sand bed, even if you don't use a fuge you can us a shallow sand bed, I do, no complaints. Just my preference.
4-6 inches of sand, not in my tank, waist of space. Don't get me wrong there are many arguments for a DSB, I for one just do not want to see my tank with a substrate that takes up that much space. If you use the southdown sand, it is aragonite sand, it is rounded sand, not sharp, and has many ootlic size sand particles that are perfect for any size sand bed and if you went with 2 or 3 inches then you can still get some of the denitrification ablilities of the DSB due to the size grains of the sand.
How large should your fuge be?, as large as you can make it.
Thomas

 

[jlem]

I have a very shallow sand bed and I really like the look much better than the DSB look. I have undetectable nitrates and have actually lost two lawnmower blennies because there was not enough algae in the aquarium to suppoet them. My bioload is pretty small for my size of aquarium and I do have lots of swimming room so my Bioload is probably much smaller than most systems out there. I also feed my fish very little and besides calcium, buffer and biweekly water changes I add nothing else into my tank. The only thing that is required for a Saltwater tank is saltwater. Everything else depends on, well everything else.

 

[goobernif]

once again, thanks for the advice. i think i'll go with a shallow sand bed and a refugium.