Dying snails

[m0nk]

So I had gotten a bunch of Margarita and Astrea snails over the time that I've had my 12 gallon tank. The original 2 Margaritas died within 2 months of getting them and I was worried something was wrong. I tested and tested (and had the LFS test) my water and nothing was too out of the ordinary. No other animals died, corals were/are all doing great, my fish were/are happy, etc. So I blew it off as natural causes and got 4 more.
Last Friday morning I noticed a Margarita snail was dead and was going to pull it out of the tank after running some errands, got back and noticed the hermits were devouring it. That was all well and good, and I did my water change Sunday morning as usual. That evening I discovered that another snail was dead and the hermits were already working on that one as well. I did a little research and found out that Margarita snails are colder climate snails and in a tropical reef environment they'll be slowly "cooked" to death. I'm fairly bummed by this, but I suppose now I know not to buy those anymore.
Now, this morning one of my Astrea's is dead as well. My water tests show a real slight color change in the ammonia (barely even enough to say it's between 0 and .25), and my nitrites show around .05. I should have tested this prior to my water change, but didn't have a chance to this week. My questions are:
could there have been a minor spike in ammonia and nitrites have been caused by the two Margarita snails dying?
Could that spike be responsible fror the Astrea dying?
I'm probably just paranoid but I worry about the fish and corals, but could this minor water quality issue hurt them much, considering it's a 12 gallon?
Do I need to do another water change before my usual Sunday change?
Thanks!!

 

[fishy7]

I would like to see some more info: :thinking:
1) What were water parameters
2) What kind of hermits
3) Sounds to me your hermits are hungry/what is your feeding shedule
4) More info about the tank: inhabitants/how long set up.
5) How did you acclimate them?
I want to help but need this in info, all answers would be a shot in the dark :notsure:

 

[m0nk]

Water parameters are usually (sorry, I haven't tested in about 2 weeks, which I know is pretty bad, but I'm usually a little more on top of the levels) around the following:
Ammonia/Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 0 (sometimes fluctuates being a 12 g nano, but always stays below 5ppm)
Calcium: 450
Hermits are 1 red-legged and 2 blue legged
I have 2 false perc clowns, a cleaner shrimp, a peppermint shrimp, and 2 Nassarius snails. I feed flakes in the morning and frozen food in the evening (not too much of either but the frozen food spreads around the tank).
I've had the tank up since early december and all the inhabitants have been in there since the first week of January, with the exception of the latest 4 Margaritas, which I got 2-3 weeks ago. They were acclimated for about an hour. Thanks!

 

[m0nk]

I forgot my coral list.
1 rock with green zoanthids
1 frogspawn (small, but it's splitting a new head, so soon to get bigger)
about 10 mushrooms scattered throughout the tank
green button polyps
I spot feed the frogspawn zooplex and phytoplex (less than one thread on the cap of each) every Saturday, that way any scattered plankton doesn't affect my water levels too much before the weekly water change.

 

[fishy7]

Thanks for the info:
No need to be sorry, we are all learning here...

Does not appear to be water.
The blues are know for taking out snails. This may be your culprit.
Acclimation? I assume drip or add water to the bag?
Feeding: may not be enough food for them, so when you add a snail they may see this a dinner. Doe they get any food when you feed?
To give you an idea... I have 20 blues 75 reds and 100 reg reef hermits. 20 astrea and 20 nasarious. When I added the blues I am slowly loosing my astrea. Saw the blue one go up and attack for no reason....

 

[m0nk]

Cool, thanks for the info. The way they went for the dead margaritas, they might just be hungry. But they weren't attacking the Astrea, I just found it upside down and dead this morning, of course it might just be a coincidence that it fell on it's shell, couldn't get up, and died there within days of the other two...
I do feel better, thanks!

 

[fishy7]

no prob good luck...

 

[saltn00b]

you should be drip acclimating invertebrates, 2-3 hours. they are most sensitive to water parameter changes, and can take up to 2 month to die from acclimation shock. snails are especially sensitive. hermits also are a good way to lose snails.

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
you should be drip acclimating invertebrates, 2-3 hours. they are most sensitive to water parameter changes, and can take up to 2 month to die from acclimation shock. snails are especially sensitive. hermits also are a good way to lose snails.
Wow, really? Do they show any signs of stress during that time if that's the case? These snails were all rather active...
Also, I'm not positive about the second margarita, but I do know the first one was dead when the hermits started on it...

 

[frankthetank]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
you should be drip acclimating invertebrates, 2-3 hours. they are most sensitive to water parameter changes, and can take up to 2 month to die from acclimation shock. snails are especially sensitive. hermits also are a good way to lose snails.
This completely slaps SWF.com in the face... they ship their snails in no water. Drip acclimating is impossible in this case. SWF.com says to temp acclimate and then release.

 

[saltn00b]

well i guess my backhand is strong!
inverts are said to be 10 times more sensitive to salinity and other changes than fish.
edit:
this is not always the case, unles they changed something, but everytime i have received snails from them they have been in water. i have ordered turbos astreas, mexican turbos and nassarius from swf all in water. maybe some are not sent in water.

 

[frankthetank]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
well i guess my backhand is strong!
inverts are said to be 10 times more sensitive to salinity and other changes than fish.
edit:
this is not always the case, unles they changed something, but everytime i have received snails from them they have been in water. i have ordered turbos astreas, mexican turbos and nassarius from swf all in water. maybe some are not sent in water.
Have you ordered any from them in the last couple months? Two seperate shipments of nassarius snails and turbo snails, and cleaner clams were shipped without water. I thought it was a mistake at first glance, only to then see the note included in the packaged box that all snails are shipped without water and only need to be temp acclimated for 15-20 minutes.
I thought it was weird too... but it apparently is their shipping practice now.

 

[teen]

snails are somtimes shipped in no water, which would make it impossible to drip acclimate as stated above.
while salt n00b is correct that inverts are more sensitive to changes in water chemistry, i think a lot of people (including myself) just temp acclimate and toss them in the tank, because, their only snails.
i loose snails all the time, mostly nassarius because i guess they're easiest for hermits to kill. ive never lost a turbo snail, and i have 2 other snails, not sure which type that have been with me since day one. i think its easiest to just replace them rather than driving myself crazy trying to figure out why i lost a handful of snails.
also, not positive on this, but i think its the aestrea snails that need to be flipped over once on their backs. if you dont physically flip them back over, they will die.

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by teen
snails are somtimes shipped in no water, which would make it impossible to drip acclimate as stated above.
while salt n00b is correct that inverts are more sensitive to changes in water chemistry, i think a lot of people (including myself) just temp acclimate and toss them in the tank, because, their only snails.
i loose snails all the time, mostly nassarius because i guess they're easiest for hermits to kill. ive never lost a turbo snail, and i have 2 other snails, not sure which type that have been with me since day one. i think its easiest to just replace them rather than driving myself crazy trying to figure out why i lost a handful of snails.
also, not positive on this, but i think its the aestrea snails that need to be flipped over once on their backs. if you dont physically flip them back over, they will die.
Well, that would explain why this one may have died, I found it this morning so it may have been on it's shell all night. I suppose I am a bit paranoid about things sometimes and always figured I'd have the snails as an indicator of a possible tank crash, but I'll keep what you said in mind about just replacing as needed and not worry so much. Since my water parameters aren't crazy there really isn't anything to worry about...I'm just that kind of person, unfortunately, over-analyzing and paranoid....heh. thanks all!

 

[teen]

id be more concerned if your zoas and frogspawn looked bad. corals almost always tell you when something is wrong. snails go all the time, just be lucky they're not $40 each.

 

[xokarmaxo]

Originally Posted by teen
id be more concerned if your zoas and frogspawn looked bad. corals almost always tell you when something is wrong. snails go all the time, just be lucky they're not $40 each.

This is what I've heard too, that corals can give you the greatest indication of anything being "off" in your tank... and losing $40 is a lot more bothersome than losing a $1.50 snail.

 

[awilson500]

ya my snail just died crabs eating it right now. Probley shock didn't acclimate properly.

 

[fishgeek01]

Quick question for all of you... If you say it is impossible to drip acclimate since they do not come in water, how is it that you are able to temp acclimate them? Have any of you ever taken a car and put it in the garage after it has been outside in the cold for a long time? When you get in thecar the air inside, even after several hours is still cold. Not even close to the temp of the garage. My question is, how can you temp acclimate a snail in its protective shell, and expect it to be the same temp as your water when it is not in water? Something in all of this does not add up... At least not to me.

 

[teen]

everytime ive bought snails they've came in water, but i still just temp acllimate because to me, there only snails.
if i was to recieve snails with no water in the bag, i guess the best and only way to temp acclimate would be to let the air out of the bag and put the bag in a bowl of warm water and slowly add warmer water till the temp matches that of your tanks. sounds a little drastic, but i see no other way. if you just let the air out of the bag and then put the bag in the tank water, it would be the same as just putting the snails directly in the tank.