Ecosystem question

rmckee22

rmckee22

New Member
I was wondering if anyone could answer a question for me? My local fish store insists that this new ecosystem filtration system by ecosystem aquarium is the best thing in the world. I was interested in getting another opinion on it, although everything I have read seems to indicate it is the "Best new thing" My question is this:
I have started an 80 gal reef tank (It is only 2 months old with 2 corals right now and some fish) and the recommended ecosystem filtration for this size tank, is simply to big for me to place anywhere in, around or under my tank. The only one that would work for my particular setup is the Hang On 60 Marine filtration system for 40 through 60 gallon tanks. Being that my tank is an 80 gallon, would it be beneficial for me to use one of these or is it just to small? I currently have 89 lbs live rock, 2 mechanical filters and a remora pro protein skimmer. I was thinking of loosing one of the hang on the back mechanical filters and replacing it with this ecosystem.
Everything I have read says you don't need a protein skimmer if you use these ecosystems so I am not sure if it would even be beneficial for me to use one if it is not the right size for my tank.
Any advice is appreciated!!
 
rook

rook

Member
I have an eco 40 on my 29gl. I love it. 0 nitrite/trate/amm.
I don't know about the no skimming needed idea. I kind of think they are full of ?????
But, I would diy the system for cheaper. I am sure constructing one out of an old tank and adding some miricle mud or a substitute will not be that difficult.
I am not sure, but basically it is just a refugeum?
 
rook

rook

Member
should I remove my bioballs???
Could they cause a problem?
If I remove them I will have a spot in my eco 40 to put my lifereef float switch and get it out of my main tank.
Do you run a sump in-line with your eco? I think the eco needs to maintain a relatively low waterflow rate and could not, or should not have the full load of the overflows.
 
cadbury

cadbury

Member
I also think they are great, but overpriced! I wish I knew then what I know now. I spent $760.00 for mine, I have a 180 gallon reef aquirum, you could build you own less than a 100.00 if not cheaper. But I really believe in the concept and if you went with the ecosystem method you dont need a Protein Skimmmer, a skimmer actually takes out alot of needed nutrients.
 
cadbury

cadbury

Member
They say you can remove the bio balls once your tank is established for several months. And yes you can do a in-line.
 
cadbury

cadbury

Member
You really are better off, its really easy to do and cost you close to nothing. The only thing that is pricey is the mud!
 
rmckee22

rmckee22

New Member
You guys rule Thanks for the awesome input. I am stoked now!! I was all bummed becuase I just dropped $400 for my 4 X 96 watt PC lights and I didn't have much money left for this filter, I didn't even think of building one. A 20 gal from walmart would fit nicely and there is a glass shop right down the road. The local fish store wants $560 for one of these that would fit my tank. I told him he was on crack if he thought I would pay that much for a filter on an 80 gal tank.
Juggernaut, please send me your info that would be awesome!!!
rmckee@fti-net.com
Old Yeller tang, that is a bad ass tank you have on your web site, I am sooo jealous!! This stuff is way to addicting.
Thanks a million guys!!
 
rook

rook

Member
Juggernaut
Me too, I could use some pics of before and after.
cnuddeje@msu.edu
This is too addicting. We should start reefers anonymous. My girlfriend is going to kill me one of these days for all of the time and $$$ I spend on my tank. She's getting a diamond soon so that should give me some leaway.
 
rmckee22

rmckee22

New Member
You got it bro!, My old lady is riding me pretty hard about the marriage thing as well and how much money I have spent on this tank so far. The ONLY possitive thing is that she really does enjoy it as well, and her daughter stares at it all day long. So that makes her happy as well
 
leboeuf

leboeuf

Member
I agree with the other guys. I bought mine for $700 and could have easily built one for under $100. I was just intimidated by all the chambers and jargon they use. It is supposed to be the greatrest thing since sliced bread. HA! I really love bread. I kept my bioballs in for the cycling, and glad I did. It caught so much crap and is all black/green and bacteria filled right now. I will remove them in a couple of months to ensure no large stuff ends up in the refrug.
Scrap the skimmer, it removes benefical elements. That's a fact.
I love DIY porjects and have a digital camera to send pics of my set up.
As someone famous once said "Your tank your choice."
Good luck!
 
leboeuf

leboeuf

Member
buy the pumps online, they are so much cheaper. If you buy a bunch of #@*& the shipping will be free. I purchased a mag drive 2400 for less than $140. shop around !
 
trompet3

trompet3

Member
I have used an ecosystem for a couple of years now. I do wish I had done one myself and saved the money, but oh well. I would seriously recommend using a skimmer as well. My experience and others and LFS's is that over time, you will get algae problems, most often hair algae, especially the red stuff. This is the way I see it - if my skimmer is pulling out tons of crap, it's better in the cup than in my tank...would you take that gunk and put it back in your tank? The ecosystem is basically a refugium with their special sand. I think it is great stuff, but there really is no logic in running a skimmer with a refugium and not an ecosystem. I would never run one again without a skimmer!
 
leboeuf

leboeuf

Member
the macro is subposed to do the same thing as the skimmer. If you read their research, not just their website, it tells you that the skimmer is counterproductive. The reason they are able to cure lateral line erosion and disease is because the natural effects of the system. In time the hair algae will not survive due to lack of nutrients..... Remember, this hobby requires patience. The system is not simply ready to do its job straight out of the box. It has to cure and overcome many obsticles.
Everyone is entitled to do as they wish in their own tanks, so I will continue down my path and hopefully report some incredible experiences over the next couple of years.
Good luck guys,
Newbie, just remember to read, read, read, read, read & share !
 
rook

rook

Member
My eco which has been up and running about a year roughly, keeps my nitrates, nitrites, ammonia basically at zero. I still have not bought a posphate or silicate test kit yet so I don't know about those.
Does skimming remove much else that the eco does not? Leboeuf, where did you find the research to read?
 
trompet3

trompet3

Member
In respose to LeBoeuf, if people's arguments earlier in the post for not using a skimmer is that it takes the needed nutrients out of the water, then I don't understand you're argument that the hair algae will go away by the ecosystem taking away the nutrients. The two statements contradict one another...you either want the nutrients or you don't. I feel that the skimmer takes out stuff that the ecosystem does not. A refugium helps with nutrient/waste cycling, but does not remove all from the water. BTW, I don't mean to sound argumentative, but reading this over, it comes out that way.
 
leboeuf

leboeuf

Member
Rook the papers I read are on ecosystem.com under testimonials or research or something. Keep looking through that site and their are hundreds of leads that will endorse my response.
trompet3......we are all here to learn, me especially. MO is formulated from what I have read for months and in speaking with the guys at ecosystem labs. The skimmer is a great tool in that it removes a lot of "things" from the water, however it doesn't destinguish from good or bad elements. The macro removes the bad "cycle" and leaves base and trace elements "thought" needed for a healthly natural environment. True the red and green algae's will have growth cycles but shouldn't get out of hand. If they do, there are plenty of nature creatures and organisms that flourish with this as a food base. When a true ecosystem setup is mature and running smooth, water changes are not necessary. Some of the guys I spoke with said they have not done a water change in over a year. I have heard first hand of stories from the LFS guys that they too have not done water changes in 6 months.
So, back to the argued point, if there is a way to get to a maintance free tank that is healthier overall for the inhabitants, than thats the direction I am heading in. Skimming will always require water changes inorder to put back into the water supply what has been removed unnecessarily.
good luck
Just my two cents, but before spending $$$ on a skimmer give it a try. You can always go purchase one is needed, but you can't return a used one??????????
 
rook

rook

Member
Yeah, I read that you don't need to do water changes, and actually it is supposed to be counter productive for an ecosystem setup. But, since I have crushed coral substrate and not sand, I either have to vaccum the cc and do a water change, or skim.
Or, better yet, change out my cc for sand. Damn them lfs people for telling me to get cc. I actually went to the lfs the other day and they said there was no difference between cc an dsb besides looks.
 
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