Emperor angelfish

[saltandpepper]

Hello everyone,
I am very soon about to be in the market for an emperor angelfish.
Recently while I was doing some further research on the emperor angel, I came across some information that suggested many captive juvenile emperor angels may never fully develop their adult colors. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the color change of an emperor angelfish and whether or not this may be true. The same article also stated that the full color change can take up to four years...ouch! I do like the juvenile's color, but ultimately it is the adult coloration that I am after!

I don't think I could stare at those hypnotic circles for four years!!!

I am also interested into what may cause this if it is true. My guess is improper diet that is lacking the much needed sponge, etc. or the much smaller than the ocean fish tank. I know one of those if not both are a safe bet!

I really would like to know because if this is true than I may not purchase a juv. emperor, and instead go for a already changing fish or a full adult. I see that www.saltwaterfish.com stocks the changing fish as well as the juv. and the adult. I assume that if I were to get a "changing" emperor that the fish's color would be more likely to fully transition completely? Thanks in advance for any information and help!

 

[truefishman]

ya i do have to imagine that it is improper diet but from what ive read is that it dosent happen very often im sure if you purchase the changing then you will have a bigger chance of it being full adult colors but make sure you give it a good diet.and btw how bit is your DT and what are you thinking it will be tankmates with.
ive got one myself very entertaining to watch graze the rock.and also use garlic in your food and vitamin supplement.im sure ccampbell57 could help you he ordered one from here and has alot of experience with angels

 

[saltandpepper]

Thanks!
I have a 110 gallon long with a 20 gallon sump. The tank is 60Lx18Wx22H inches, so I would not get one that is over 5 or 6 inches max. Most likely 3-5 inches if possible. Do you know what their growth rates are? I mean how quickly does this fish grow?
I am planning on getting a 200-220 gallon tank within the next three years or so, but for now with these small guys it is wide open. I only have a very small picaso trigger (2.5 inches), small porcupine puffer (3.5 inches), and a (medium at best 4-5 inches) Hawaiian naso tang (lipstick) in the 110 right now.
I did not cram it with rocks and the fish are small so there is alot of swim room. It does have a good bit of live rock even though, but alot of open sand and swimming also. I did a descending rock/"reef" display that starts high on one end and gradually tapers down. Anyways...this will be the only fish in the tank for good until I get the 200+. I will then only add a powder blue tang if anything else at all, but that is not for sure yet on the powder blue tang.
I don't want to overcrowd the fish so since these guys get rather large I will keep it to four or five at the most even in the 200+ setup.
Oh yeah..I do have a ocellaris clown right now, but when the puffer gets bigger the clown will have to go in my 20 or 30 gallon tank. I don't want poor Norman to be lunch!

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[srfisher17]

Food for thought: juvi angels are much easier to acclimate to tank life than bigger specimens; because they are less likely to have a set diet already established and are more likely to adjust to new foods.(A rough quote from Bob Fenner). Also, IMO, raising an Emperor from juvi to adult is one of the most rewarding experiences I've had is this hobby. I've raised several different species and all developed fantastic color.

 

[saltandpepper]

I'm glad you mentioned that about a juvenile emperor!
I had heard that somewhere else about the juv. emperor being easier to acclimate too. That is a very good point, plus I can have some "breathing room" with the 110 with the juvenile and can save some money! That is always nice these days!

Thanks a bunch for that suggestion!!!! I often times have read or heard sooo much that I forget more than half of it!

That is good to hear that the non-color changing issues and captive coloration problems, etc. isn't that wide spread of a problem. I swear some publications you read are so doom and gloom about everything. That is why this forum is sooo very great

Do you any of you guys know if it really takes up to approx. four years for the full adult color change to finish on the emperor?

If not, what is a good estimate of time on the full color change process? I'm just curious is all.
I have seen a few, smaller than I expected, emperor angels at the LFS's and they have their full adult coloring. They were only around 4-5 inches which I thought was pretty small anyways.

Thank you both for the great info!

 

[truefishman]

i have to imagine that it is 5 years but it might be slower because it is in captivity.but the biggest issue is the fish itself.all fish are different.it depends on how good of a diet it gets

 

[ccampbell57]

My 2.5" emperor changed completely in just under 3 years and is still changing almost 5 years later.

 

[srfisher17]

The Emperor I had in MS took about 3 years to get to what I would call "adult" coloration; then continued to grow and brighten for about 6 years--like ccampbell's. Then Katrina got him. I got the one I have now from SWF. Com, when they had the Hawaiian juvis on sale, almost 1 1/2 years ago. He wasn't any bigger than 2" and now is 4+ " and showing lots of yellow on his sides and white on his face. He has also gotten a lot more of the adult shape & profile; an incredible fish.

 

[sean48183]

There was a guy who documented his emporer's change on the -- site. It was updated every couple months for 2 years and his had only have changed in that time. He fed 2-3 times a day a mixture of food including sponge and was not convinced it would ever fully changed. Didn't look promising. I would buy the smallest adult you can find if you really want the adult coloration.
One thing to be wary of is that these fish are sort of clumsy swimmers and faster more aggressive tank mates(Humu Humu) will show no mercy. I bought a 7" adult and my lunar tore him apart over 3 days. I tried to get both of them out but was impossible with my live rock and the emporer eventually died. The lunar ate all his fins and one of his eyes and the emporer had no shot at defending himself from the onslaught. It was a $125 bummer!

 

[saltandpepper]

Oh man... that is very sad to hear about your emperor! I hope that never happens to you again. Sometimes this hobby can be discouraging due to such disasters like that.

I really would not like to loose any fish period, especially not one that cost in the $100+ range. I am by no means rich and I just don't "stomach" loosing a fish, not that anyone else does for that matter!
I agree with you whole heartedly about the piccaso triggerfish! He is very gentle for now and does not even bother the small ocellaris clownfish, but I do know that they "grow" into their aggression and "if push does come to shove" I would certainly "ditch" my trigger to keep the emperor safe. I want it to be my "showcase" fish and I will work the stock lists around this fish if I must.
On a side note, I had a lunare wrasse many years ago and he seemed very passive (only 5-6 inches long), but I have read something about how they can be very aggressive too. I just never thought they were that bad or could be that bad, I wonder if their temperment varies upon the individual fish like a picaso trigger or if they are just maturely aggressive? Well, at any rate that rules out the lunare I guess for future stocking. I was considering one after I got the bigger tank, but I think I will pass on the wrasse and stick with the current stock and hopefully the angel in a few months.
About the color changing, that is amazing at how long it takes!!! I think that the other person may be right about finding the smallest adult I can get!

I really don't think that I would want to wait up to three to five years to see if things will fully develop, although the changing proccess sounds interesting. I ultimately am after the adult coloration. Thank you all for the info, now I can think about which direction to take.

 

[saltandpepper]

Oh yeah...btw
Are the hawaiian emperors more expensive? I see that a indo-pacific juvenile is running about $79 on here. I am sure they are, but how much are they typically? Also..is the color more intense on the hawaiian?
I saw a picture of a $500 adult red sea emperor angelfish once that was beautiful with a orange tail. That was cool, but way- out of my price range.

 

[sean48183]

My lunar does not bother any one currently in the tank but seems to have a problem with new additions. However I am not sure totally if he was being aggressive towards the emperor or picking off parasites from him. Since I never see aggression towards anything else I am beginning to believe he may have just been tearing the parasites off along with chunks of his body and fins.
As far as coloration of the different emperors I am not sure but I believe hawain's develop streamers and red seas don't. Not sure on that one though.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by Saltandpepper
http:///forum/post/2955792
Oh yeah...btw
Are the hawaiian emperors more expensive? I see that a indo-pacific juvenile is running about $79 on here. I am sure they are, but how much are they typically? Also..is the color more intense on the hawaiian?
I saw a picture of a $500 adult red sea emperor angelfish once that was beautiful with a orange tail. That was cool, but way- out of my price range.

This is from my online SWF order history:
Emperor Angelfish: Hawaiian Juvenile 99.99
Up until then, I don't even remember seeing them ( the Hawaiian variety)for sale by any large dealer. In Fenner's book (1st edition) he says that info on Hawaiian emperors is from a "single specimen". When mine was acclimated, it was the most colorful juvi emperor I'd ever seen; it looked as if the fish was under MH lighting, rather than the ordinary florescent lights in my QT. I don't know if it was because of its being Hawaiian, just my excitement, or the fact that Hawaiian fish are handled so well.

 

[alvin.joseph09]

I have a FOWLR 200 gallon oceanic tank. My 2" emperor changed completely within 7 years. He was fed a mix of formula one flakes and mega marine angel formula (frozen). I also added a juvi Koran at the same time as my emperor but he was about 1". The Koran is twice the size of my emperor but still has his juvi markings. Just a FYI for beginner hobbyists you don't want like colored juvi angels in the same tank. I've had many wars in my tank between these two but luckily I gave them ALOT of live rock to hide in.

 

[geridoc]

I added a 3 inch imperator to my 110 gal system 15 years ago. It started to change 3 years later, continued for 3 more years. When it died during hurricane Sandy last year it was in my 220 gas system and was about 8-10 inches long, and had good color. It was fed lots of greens, formula 1 and frozen angel mix. One of the best fish I have had in more than 35 years of fish keeping.