End to our hobby?

[ja]

I read in an article that certain organizations are trying to ban all wild caught marine life. The only marine life that we would be able to keep would be tank bred species. That of course would pretty much limit are selection of fish and other inverts to almost nill. Anybody else heard anyting of the like. I hope its just a rumor especially with our hobby getting so popular.

 

[mr . salty]

I think there are bigger fish to fry.(ha ha) Plus there are too many of us "dedicated hobbiest" to let it happen. It's like the hole GUN CONTROL thing, I dont think we have to worry about that because groups like the NRA have banded together to stop it. I belive the same would happen here. STEVE

 

[purplepuffer]

I am afraid to say that I kinda agree with conservation. I mean, we are not helping to put back in the wild what we take out. Look at Killer Whales that are taken from the wild, there dorsal fins flop over, but not in the whales that were captive breed, because they don't know any different. When I first got into this hobby, I just expected that all of the fish were captive bred, and I was actually quite alarmed when I heard that most of these fish weren't. So what if the fish we are taking home today aren't endangered, how many tanks are they going to have to fill up, and how many reefs are going to be destroyed until they finally are endangered. I much rather not WAIT until they are endangered to try and start restricting or baning the trade of wild caught fish, I much rather make sure that it NEVER comes to that point. And I would think that the love you have for your beloved reefs, that you would want to make sure they were always cared for, and that you would be able to still go and see the real thing. Many people just say, "don't worry about it, it is just a fish", but my point is, exactly, I should do everything to take care of it, just as if it was a dog, or cat, or whatever else someone thinks is more important.
~~Megan

 

[jrob22]

I agree with Megan. I don't believe wild fish (or any wild animal for that matter) should be taken out of there natural habitat for reasons other than medical help. I believe if you like WILD tropical fish so much, then you should buy a house by the sea. That way you wouldn't have to take these fish out of the ocean, and you'd still be able to see them as well as anyone else that wanted to, rather than restricting the viewing of these fish to a small few who come into your house.

 

[bobsingh1]

This kind of topic sure gets emotions stirred up. I too am not in favor or indiscriminate reef destruction to fill our tanks but at the same time I love my reef and don't want any environmental buttheads to tell me right from wrong. I know for a fact that many of these environmental buttheads have been proven wrong.
Education is the key in these situations. I will just take my example. When I started, I had zero knowledge about saltwater fish and reef tanks but instead of telling me right from wrong or asking me questions about this, I was hurriedly sold equipment which was too inadequate to start this hobby.
But my IFS knew that with that kind of budget I had, disaster was bound to happen and I was bound to come back again and again. He was right. The result, within a couple of months, my tank was completely wiped out. If that guy would have recommended me a book instead on this hobby, I probably would have killed less fish.
With hundereds of cases like myself, the demand factor grows more than the supply resulting in more money for wholesalers and retailers driving these species one step close to extinction.
This is just like selling a brand new car but without steering wheel or tires to someone who has never driven a car before and saying that it will make do. In other words, this is nothing short of fraud on their part and frauds ought to be caught and punished.
I just wish every tank sold came with a book, (just like VCR) telling what, when and how to avoid disasterous situations for one. And maybe strict enforcement, on the other, of how much can be taken out of the sea, should be enforced.

 

[purplepuffer]

I would rather my fish be captive bred, than taking them from there natural enviroment. I do not feel that I would be at all deprived because I don't get as rich of a selection for my aquarium if all that I could have were fish that are easily captive bred. If you feel like you would be missing out, then you could buy some scuba gear, instead of an aquarium. Then the expereince would be more breathe-taking than what you would find in your home.
~~Megan

 

[jrob22]

Hey, it's cool, I'm not upset or anything. Everyone has there own opinions. Some lean a certain way more than others and like Bobsingh1 said, these topics to tend to stir some emotions. But I still stick to what I think. Oh, and I did, mean medical help for the animal. Sorry for the mis-communication.
-Jonathan

 

[blacktip]

For the past 18 years I have been importing marine fish from all over the world. I have as well heard the same rumor. I also heard a rumor that congress wants to control what airline companies are allowed to ship. One of the items they want the airlines to stop shipping are fish and animals. This rumor surfaced nearly 10 years ago. I agree something needs to be done to conserve the ocean. That is why there are bodies governing what can and cannot be taken from our oceans and why certain chemicals can and can not be used to collect fish. As an example in Florida it is Illegal to collect any angel fish over 8". I once met a gentleman who was stopped with his catch. He was cited for collecting a french angel which measure 8.5". He not only lost his collecting permit, but was fined $25,000 as well as his 45 foot boat being impounded. It is true we are taking a great deal of fish from the ocean yet what most people don't realize is the sizes which are being collected have a sucess ratio of 1 in 100 to make it to maturity and to actually reproduce. The other 99 of these fish generally end up shark food or just plain dying from diease. Which brings me to my next point......if there is an animal that needs to be protected and conserved it is the Sharks of the Ocean. If someone wants to put on a crusade it is time to beat up those Asian people who believe shark finning is acceptable....yet that is a topic all it's own. There are more reefs destroyed, more fish killed and more enviroments upset by Cruise ships,polltion, and just plain stupidity than there ever will be by the collection of fish for the hobby. i guess as the other gentleman has said it is quite the emotional topic, I just think people should look at the big picture before blaming the distruction of the ocean on us hobbiest. Let's attack cruise ships for dumping their waste in international waters, attack shark finners, the average sport fisherman for savagely murdering countless numbers of fish and sharks, yet most importantly how about the commerical fisherman who's catch yeilds 30% of the total catch for the food industry while the other 70% is destroyed and tossed back into the water that is if they get their net back into the boat. Countless numbers of time I have been Scuba diving only to find a drift net which was cut free and floted to a reef. I actually counted 7 dead sharks and 3 dead dolphins in one of the nets we found. This is a hot topic for me considering my livelyhood is based off this industry and as long as we all act responsibly in the collecting, transporting and keeping of fish we can all educate each other and be able to enjoy this hobby for many many centuries to come. Sorry for the rambling. Oh and happy fishkeeping. I guarrantee the hobby is here to stay.

 

[fishgirl]

Now that I have seen the fishes in their real natural enviornment, I could sense they were so much happier.
But I think that keeping aquariums is one of the best things we can do for them.
This is because if we (the hobbiists and experts) can develop the right technologies to recreate a perfect mini ocean that all hobbiests could afford, we could buy all our fish bred in captivity, and we not only would stop depleating the ocean of it's fish, but we would also have a great tool for putting fish back into the wild and increasing thier numbers to balance out the eco-system. And of course, we'd still hae our wonderful hobby! I say if enviornmentalists stop us from our hobby too soon, they will actually be missing out on a great chance to help thier own cause.
Another things some conservationists have wrong, is that "oh, it's all the fishing industry's fault for overfishing!" When it's not overfishing that's the problem but it's OVER-SHARKING! the apex predator of the seas is the animal that can help the fishmen the most. The sharks eat the seals which eat the fish. If there were no sharks, the seals would over-populate and eat all the fish, causing the whole world's eco-system to shut down and go ker-splat. Just like that. And to think, they kill the sharks, thinking they'll get a better catch that way! To this day, people catch sharks, cut off thier fins while they're alive, and throw them back into the water, still alive, in pain, to drown slowly without the use of thier fins! Rediculous, shark fin soup!! Education is definatly the key. Conservationists have thier heart in the right place, but they need hard facts and science. Not just to stop people from using our own resources.

 

[clayton]

Blacktip and many others have made some good points. In England the importation of all hard corals is virtually banned and it is something that I agree with as a conservationist and a marine biologist.
I worked for quite a while in the Phillipines as a science officer for a conservation society surveying the reefs there, and setting up protected marine areas. The reefs in the Phillipines have suffered drastically from man and much of it due to collection for the aquarium hobby. It is not the only cause of the destruction (dynamite fishing is also a major problem) but cyanide fishing and collecting methods have wiped out huge areas of reef, I have seen this first hand. The hobby is to blame for much of this.
However, again blacktip is right and we should also be looking at protecting our reefs from other things that are destroying them.
Collecting for the hobby is easily sustainable, there is a gentleman in the Maldives who has his own island and has been hand collecting from the waters for decades. He monitors the populations around the island and has proven that collection is possible and still maintain a healthy the reef.
Many species of fish and coral, in my opinion, should not be permited in the trade as they are either virtualy impossible to sustain long term, or are endangered. However more is being learnt about corals and fish through aquaculture than any other way and we are going to need this knowledge for conservation.
We need to be concientious - the attitude and disregard for the reefs and the animals we keep, that is shown by some, makes me sick.
How sad it would be if we are the ones to be even partly responsible for the further destruction of what we all consider to be so beautifull and fascinating.

 

[clownfish]

I don't think that many corals and fish are being removed from the ocean when you think about the sheer billions and billions in the wild. Less than 1% of wild corals and fish have been collected. Sure, percula clowns are popular, but think about how many are still in the ocean, frolicking among the tentacles of anemones that are over 100 years old. Yellow tangs are popular too, but I don't think the wild yellow tang populations have been significantly impacted.

 

[clownfish]

I also think our hobby has many, many years to go before some environmental buttheads succeed in passing a ban on collecting corals and fish. IF it became illegal to buy saltwater fish and inverts, I think many people, including me, would go to the Pacific coral reefs and other reefs and bring back a few fish and inverts that we KNOW how to care for. I will set up a 55 reef in September and I have researched a whole lot and will never be finished learning about it all. One day I will probably be an expert, but I will never be done learning. No one will ever know everything about this hobby, with the possible exception of God. He's kept corals and fish for millions of years in an endlessly vast "aquarium". The sun is his MH, the beaches his skimmers, and so on.

 

[fishgirl]

Originally posted by clownfish:
Yellow tangs are popular too, but I don't think the wild yellow tang populations have been significantly impacted.
VERY TRUE, I could hardly see through all the yellow tangs in hawaii!

 

[fishgirl]

Originally posted by clownfish:
No one will ever know everything about this hobby, with the possible exception of God. He's kept corals and fish for millions of years in an endlessly vast "aquarium". The sun is his MH, the beaches his skimmers, and so on.
I like what you said, clownfish!

 

[clayton]

Originally posted by clownfish:
I don't think that many corals and fish are being removed from the ocean when you think about the sheer billions and billions in the wild. Less than 1% of wild corals and fish have been collected. Sure, percula clowns are popular, but think about how many are still in the ocean, frolicking among the tentacles of anemones that are over 100 years old. Yellow tangs are popular too, but I don't think the wild yellow tang populations have been significantly impacted.
Sorry to be blunt clownfish but in some cases you are wrong. If you are really concerned then check out some of the minutes from meetings of the year of the reef with particular reference to the Phillipines. Until it was halted, millions upon millions of fish were being removed from fillipine waters for the aquarium trade, many of which would have ended up in tanks belonging to people on these posts. This went a long way to destroying miles and miles of once beautifull reef. Many might not like the sound of it but it is true.

 

[jtoliver]

Up until 6 months ago when I got the reef bug, I would not have thought about or cared about what happened to the reefs. But because of this hobby, I now greatly care about what happens to them. I don't believe though, that the responsible collecting of fish and corals can endanger the reefs. Quite the oppisite, I think that as our hobby grows that mor people will come to love and care for them as we do. As we learn more about these animals, we will be able to get more of them to reproduce in captivity and this to will ease the burden on the ocean.
[This message has been edited by jtoliver (edited 07-31-2000).]

 

[clownfish]

It would be VERY good if we could breed most or all saltwater fish in captivity. This presents big problems though. Most marine fish have a planktonic larval stage. Freshwater fish are MUCH easier to breed because they are:
easier to spawn in the first place
far easier to feed fry
fry are large enough for easily used foods
and so on
Don't get me wrong, I wish we didn't have to collect wild fish. But until we can breed them in captivity, collecting will be the only choice. True, some areas are more affected by collecting than others, but the whole ocean has changed very little because of this. There still are loads of fish on coral reefs. The incredible diversity on reefs will not change.
I wish I could buy a tank raised coral beauty and a tank raised yellow tang when I get my 55 and cycle it. I would pay DOUBLE for a fish that was NOT removed from the ocean. The fish would be much hardier and happier this way. I know they hate being removed from the ocean and put in 3 or 4 different tanks before being sold to the aquarist. I will make their tank much like the ocean, however. I will have colorful corals and purple live rocks.