Eqpt for 300G Aggressive Setup

puffdad

Member
Hey people,
Can someone tell me what pump/filtration equipment i may be missing from this list for a 300G Aggressive Setup? Or does this look pretty complete?
Pumps –
(2) Optima #807
(1) PenPlax Silentair X6
(2) Powerhead 402
(2) Tertra Luft Pump
(1) Little Giant 2E
Filters –
(1) Lifeguard Fluidizer Bed Filter FB300
(1) Marineland Emperor 400B
(2) Marineland Biowheel Pro 30
(1) Second Nature Whisper Power Filter
(1) Supreme 250
(1) Second Nature WDF 4000
(1) Whisper Triad 1000
Thanks for the help.
 

broomer5

Active Member
Sorry Puffdad,
I've never looked into filter requirements for that large a tank, specially an agressive tank, and I'm unfamiliar with most of the filters listed.
That being said .. my opinion really doesn't mean squat ... but here goes anyways.
It appears to me that you have a lot of individual filters listed. I would think that maybe a very large wet/dry would move a lot of water and allow for some mechanical filtration better than a lot of individual filters. Maybe ... maybe not.
Not much help but hate to see a post go with out a reply.
Maybe some other BIG TANK aggressives out there will add to this.
See ya,
Brian
 

puffdad

Member
Thanks, Brian, that helps.
I have an opportunity to buy a 300G w/ all of these things thrown in for a good deal, but not sure if these things thrown in are worth anything.
Anyone else?
 

sonny

Member
For a tank that size, I'd recommend using a really good protein skimmer, like an ETS downdraft or berlin XL turbo, and consider using ozone. Definately use some live sand and live rock in the tank. You don't really have to have the recommended 1-2 lbs. per gallon like in a reef, but you will do well to have maybe 100-150 lbs so the tank will have plenty of critters introduced. More will not hurt. Live sand has a lot of biological filtration capacity too. Using ozone will really help get rid of the large waste amount you will have in a large aggressive set-up. You can get a Red Sea ozonizer with built-in controller for not a huge amount. Just get one that can handle that tank size.
I have had good success with the rainbow lifegard fluidized sand filter on a 240 gallon tank that I maintain in a doctor's office. The smaller one that I'm using is rated for 300 gallons. I'd go with the next size up for a 300 though. It is rated for 600 gallons, but only costs about $10 more! They run off of a power head to slowly run water through them. They will keep producing nitrates, but that won't be a big concern in an aggressive set-up. Just do water changes once a month or so. If I could design the filter system, I'd go with protein skimmer with ozone and let live rock be the main filter. You'd need good circulation in the tank to keep detritus from building up in an aggressive set-up also. Also, good source water will help keep you from having algae problems, like cyanobacteria. Invest in a good RO unit. Money well spent.
Good luck,
Sonny
 

puffdad

Member
Sonny,
Thanks. Just to recap, here's what I need:
1) Protein skimmer (ETS downdraft or berlin XL turbo)
2) Red Sea Ozonizer
3) Rainbow lifegard fluidized sand filter (600 gallon capacity)
4) RO unit
5) 100-1150 lbs of live rock
can you recommend RO units? (not sure what to look for here) and, any other specifications for the above?
Also, how about a heater/ heaters? And, you mentioned good circulation--anything else that I would need to support this?
I see people mention sumps quite a bit on this board. I'm not really sure what these are...do I need a sump, too?
also, can you suggest roughly what the prices are for the above items?
Thanks in advance!
Dave
[ June 07, 2001: Message edited by: puffdad ]
 

sonny

Member
After I wrote my first novel (I tend to go into great detail), I read your post again. Since you already have the lifegard 300 gallon sand filter, I'd go ahead and use that. That'll save you some cash. A lot of the stuff you had listed I didn't know what it was, and some of it sounds like stuff for small tanks. Big tanks need to be done a little differently from small tanks.
For the skimmer: I like the Berlin skimmer. You can get the Berlin Turbo (it comes with pump) for about $175. It has capacity for 500 gallons. The XL turbo would be more powerful, which might be worth the extra $50 for an aggressive set-up (a lot of waste in the water). You could add the ozone later if you think you need it.
For heaters, get a couple of 250 or 300 watt heaters. It's better to use multiple heaters, so if one goes out, the other will keep the tank closer to the correct temp.
As for a sump, that is a reservoir under the tank. You drain water from the tank through an overflow into the sump, and pump it back into the tank. I think you had a pump listed that would work for that purpose. (Little Giant 2MD?) The sump gives you a place to put all your gear, like the skimmer, heaters, and the sand filter. It keeps it out of sight. I can't see not using one on a large tank like that. You can get one made at a local acrylic fabricator. Measure how big your space is under the tank, and get one that will fit.
Lighting that tank will be something to consider. If you don't have lights already, for large tanks, metal halide is the best solution. It will cost about the same as other lights initially, but bulb replacement will be a little cheaper in the long run. For a tank that big, normal output flourescents just won't give you much light, and VHO fourescents are pretty expensive too. If you get 2 or 3 175 watt Metal halides, it will light the tank and look great. In the long run, I think the MH will be cheaper. You might be able to make your own canopy and save some money, if you are handy at all. What are the dimensions of the tank? Most reef tanks suggest one light for every 2 feet of tank, but in an aggressive set-up, you can use one for every 3 feet of tank no problem. If it is an 8 foot tank, I'd plan on using 3 MH lights. The lamp you choose will really change the look of the tank. The 6500 K lamp will look like sunlight, and cost about $50 each, while the 10,000 K lamp will look much bluer or very white, and more pleasing (cost about $80-100 each). I personally do like the 6500 K lamps, and if you don't see the other lights next to it, you'll never know the difference.
For RO units, I bought the Kent MAX 60 RODI. It has a Deionization cartridge, which removes more phospates and silicates than just RO alone. You might want to get the one without the DI for your tank. Mine is for a reef, and the water quality has to be much higher than a fish-only tank. Get one that can produce at least 25 gallons per day. The 60gpd "Hi-S" RO unit is on sale at one dealer I know of for $175. The RODI Max 60 is $220 (also on sale). It would probably be worth the extra $45 for the other one. Spectrapure also makes great RO units. They are a little more expensive though.
I really believe in using live rock, as the tank will be much healthier much sooner than a tank without LR.
It sounds like you've got a long-term project on your hands!
Hope this helps,
Sonny
 

puffdad

Member
PLEASE...KEEP THE NOVELS & DETAILS COMING!!!
This is what I will have for lights:
24" single/full spectrum
48" double
36" full spectrum bulb
To be honest...I am looking to buy a setup w/ all of the above equiptment (including the lights), and I am not familiar with what this package will offer me, in terms of supporting a 300G aggressive tank. I am not familiar w/ names/brands of products, so I've been looking for someone like you to prod me in the right direction.
So, please let me know what you think of the lights.
Also, want to make sure that I fully understand the configuration that you are suggesting...I will place all heaters, etc., into the sump? And, approximately how large should the sump be (either gallons or w x l x h)? The dimensions of the tank is about 85x31x23, and the stand has similar dimensions. For the sump: I assume that I can just buy another small aquarium to use, let me know if this is OK/what the dimensions should be...
Also, can I get any other use out of the above equipment, as far as you can tell?
Another question (again, forgive the ignorance)...25g per day RO unit...is this suggested only as a way to speed up the production of new water every month, for water changeouts? Or is this unit somehow integrated into the sump?
Sonny, your input has been invaluable. And yes...this is quite a project, and learning experience! I have experience with much smaller saltwater aquariums, but my use of effective equipment was minimal, so all of this is a new frontier for me.
Regards,
Dave
[ June 07, 2001: Message edited by: puffdad ]
[ June 07, 2001: Message edited by: puffdad ]
 

sonny

Member
Okay Here comes another novel...
First, if the dimensions you gave me are correct, the actual tank capacity is 262 gallons. (the formula is (l x w x h)/231 ). To be exact, use the inside dimensions. To find the weight of the water, multiply by 8.3 pounds, which gives you over 2100 pounds. Add the weight of the tank, stand, the water in the sump, pumps, etc, My guest is you'll have about 3000 pounds in all. Make sure your floor is sound!
As for the lights, if the tank is 31 inches tall, those normal output (NO) flourescents will not do much for the tank. I think 3 175 watt MH lights is the way to go. To cut costs, you can buy the ballasts and retrofit it into your hood. You can certainly do that later, and just not have much light for now. You'll be able to see the fish just fine, but the MH lights would look much better. E-mail me and I'll give you the place I recommend for buying the ballasts and bulbs. (sstokes@wspa dot com) This site will xx out any "dot com" references.
Yes, put all of those things in the sump. The sump should be as large as possible. Your sump can never be too large. You could use another aquarium, but the only problem there is that you can't drill a hole in glass tanks (most are made of tempered glass) to plumb a strong pump in, which makes you have to use a submersible pump. They add more heat to the water, and are generally not as strong. I would say for a tank that size you need a pump or PUMPS that add up to about 1000 gallons per hour. Turn over the tank volume at least 3 times per hour, preferably 5 times. I had a sump made for the tank I work on for a doctor's office (240 gallon tank) that was 18 x 18 x 18 for about $50. That's cheaper than you can buy a glass aquarium of that size.
As for what you have, use the power heads in the tank for good water movement. If you have good water movement, that will cut down on detritus and reduce problem algae. One of the power heads is probably for the sand filter. It will be a fairly small one, since it doesn't take much to run the fluidized sand filter.
All of the "power filters," well I don't think they'll help you much on this tank. Maybe that's why this person is getting rid of it. He might have had the wrong type of filter system, and always had problems. You could possibly use them on smaller tanks, or give them away, or try to sell them.
The RO unit is simply a filter that removes contaminants from tap water. It is not hooked up to the tank, just to a faucet so that you can keep a reservoir like a big plastic trash can full of filtered water. The RO can produce a certain amount of water per day depending on the RO membrane inside. Some can only do 10 gpd. With a tank that big, you will need to do about 30 gallon water changes every month. That means your RO will need to run for about 12-15 hours depending on your water pressure to make that much. Most people don't run an RO all the time, they just hook it up and filter water a week or so before they need it. A higher gpd unit will just do it faster. When you first put water in to mix salt, you will want to turn it on and add it to the tank until it's full. I'm rambling again, so until next time...
Sonny
 

puffdad

Member
Thanks again!
So now I'll need a pump for the sump, huh??
Can you suggest name/brand & specs? & Price?
Also, another stupid question: what kind of tubing should I use to connect the tank to the sump? what/where will the connections be?
 

blueberryboomer

Active Member
Puffdad, WOW!!! 300gal. I can't imagine, we just put up a 200 gal, and its huge! I've never seen a 300 set up before. I know our 200 didn't look all that big in the store, but once we got it home and had to carry that sucker in(it took 5 of us) and then setting it up in our family room, it looks HUGE!! Good luck with it and have fun, I know we will, I can't wait for the cycle to start and end, I can already picture our Niger trigger swimming back and fourth in there, he'll be so happy...What are you putting in your 300? Congrates!!!!Later Lisa :D :D
 

sonny

Member
I really prefer Iwaki pumps. They are really strong, and run quiet. For a tank that size, the 55RLT would be great. Little Giant makes some too that work great. 4MD or 5MD would work. Also, there are some new pumps on the market that I have not used, but have heard good things about, like the Dolphin pumps.
For the tubing, you will need a mix of PVC pipes and soft flexible hose, all of which you can find at Lowes or Home Depot. The only fittings you will need to mail order are "bulkhead" fittings, which will connect to the sump through the hole you drill for the pump. You will need the 1" bulkheads for that. If your tank doesn't have an overflow built in, you will need to get an overflow. Get one that is capable of draining MORE than the output of the pump. Plumbing a tank like that will be a little complicated, but you might be able to get some advice from your LFS. PVC is easy to work with. Just take it slow, and you will be fine.
Sonny
 

nickbuol

Member
Was this that huge tank on ----? We contemplated it, but we live in Iowa, so a pick up or shipping from MA would have cost more than the tank...
 

puffdad

Member
Yes, that was the tank!
I was ready to bid on it, but I did a little 'feasibility assessment' on the impact it would have on my living room. I'm not sure that the floors of my house could support it, so I need to do a little more research and see what else I may need to do before I get my 300G. (Hope I don't disappoint you Lisa!).
What a steal that guy got on that 300G, though--stand, lights, and all of the above stuff (which apparently wouldn't work, anyway) for only $650.
My plan to get the 300 has been set back a little, but I'll keep you guys posted.
 
Top