Even a Option? Or am I Crazy?

[felix15]

Im a Newbie.. Sure call me it but i have big eyes and big ideas. I bought a 29 and am wanting bigger and was wondering about water flow but not putting anything in the tank except te inlets? Here is a ruff sketch of my idea..Please tell me if its even Plausable. Thanx so much for your newbiuse help.

 

[jasenhicks]

The water level in the tank will be at the level of the drain, no way around it really just plain physics. The sump/refugium will be the same container, and the pump will be in the sump returning water to the tank. You only need one pump. If your tank is not drilled you will need an overflow box to send water to the sump/refugium. They can be about $50-200. For total flow you should look for about 10X the total water volume, i.e. a 20 gal tank and a 10 gal refugium/sump should have about 300gal flow per hour. If you do a search on the board, there are many threads on this idea.

 

[felix15]

but im trying to avoid anything and everything inside the tank except maybe the small jets that will shoot the return water out. I think putting just regular holes on the side of the tank and alowing water to be sucked in from the sides would work better but im just brainstorming. Can you have two pumps? Would that be asking for two much water thru the sump. I sorta get the properties of sumps but wouldnt know if there is a way to rig two pumps up.

 

[darknes]

You cannot have two pumps inline like that. No matter what, you cannot get the two to pump at the same rate, and will end up overflowing either your sump or your tank.

 

[dogstar]

Quick fix,
Remove the pump from the drain line so water free drains to the sump.
Raise the drain spout to top of tank near water line and remove U shape in the drain line.
Raise return spout to top just under water line.
Drain should be large enough to handle all water being pumped in so this will determine water level in main tank.
If return pump stops / fails then the water will only drain or syphon out of the main tank and back to the sump just down to the bottom of the spouts in the main tank.
Make sure theres room in the sump to hold the drained water when power stops to pump but if the spouts are raised up high then there will only be the amount of water draining to bottom of the spouts.
You must allways consider tube sizeing and gph and sump/fuge size ect. depending on what you want.

 

[jasenhicks]

You most certainly too can have two pumps inline with eachother! One has to be a smaller pump with lower pressure first, and a higher output one second. That is how you move water a long distance! This is where a good engineering background comes into play. You can, if needed have 2 pumps inline. The first pump provides the necessary Net Positive Suction head for the second pump, Net Positive Suction Head (NPSH) is the amount of water a pump needs to not cavitate, i.e. BREAK. We use the two pump concept in Navy Nuclear power plants all the time, and it works.

 

[felix15]

Ok next question what if i had multiple jets on diffrent sides and diffrent elevations of a reef tank? For instance if the pump was strong enough can it shoot out 4 jets of water? And also in my sump if i put two pumps going to diffrent sides of tank? My overflow will just pass more water since there is two pumps right? Heres a diagram i thought of lastnight.

 

[dogstar]

2 pumps as returns are fine as long as the overflow/drains can handle the flow. Sure. I have two return pumps from my sump/fuge.
You can do each pump to each side like the sketch.
You can spread the return jets as well but keep them up high because if you have a power failure and the pumps shut off then the water in the main tank will drain out to the sump and down to the lowest return jet or to the bottom of the overflow teeth. Which ever is the LOWEST and the sump most be big enough to hold that much water or it will spill over. Dont trust back flow valves because they are crap.

 

[felix15]

ok but i have a question? Ive never used any type of overflow and was wondering if you have to turn the pumps off to do water changes because of how low the water gets? Im actually getting great ideas for a really cool tank. Its gonna be expensive.

 

[felix15]

What im working with.

 

[dontyss]

Sounds like the same idea i am trying to accomplish. I am trying to hide all my motors behind something. I am running a skimmer on one side and a chiller on the other. the skimmer runs into the tank. I have a chiller on the other side drawing water and expelling it through a bulkhead on a "6x8 sump box" I also have two reo 1100 powerheads running in the sump box with split bulk heads on each side of the box. The box has no hole in the bottom, it is mostly used to hide most of the "inside the tank hardware" and anything that needs to be in the tank that takes away from the reef My brother has been running this type of setup for 15+years with perfect tank chemistry for the most part.

 

[felix15]

Do protein Skimmers and Chillers have to have water drawn from the tank or can the water be drawn off a line or T connection?

 

[jasenhicks]

Skimmmers usually sit in the sump, and chillers can be taken from anywhere in the system.... remember all the water is really connected, you chill it here and it will eventually get there....

 

[squidd]

Originally Posted by JasenHicks
You most certainly too can have two pumps inline with eachother! One has to be a smaller pump with lower pressure first, and a higher output one second. That is how you move water a long distance! This is where a good engineering background comes into play. You can, if needed have 2 pumps inline. The first pump provides the necessary Net Positive Suction head for the second pump, Net Positive Suction Head (NPSH) is the amount of water a pump needs to not cavitate, i.e. BREAK. We use the two pump concept in Navy Nuclear power plants all the time, and it works.
Yeah...BUT...
Your not dealing with "open" chambers, gravity and siphon effect...
In an "open chamber" design (as pictured) volume in the various chambers can and will change if the two pumps are not "perfectly" in sync....Can't be done with the type of equipment available for the general hobbiest...
Now..if the chambers were "closed" or sealed (ala canister filter or fluidized bed reactors) you could run two or three or any number of pumps "in ilne" to maintain flow...
But that's a totallly different "enginering" concept...

 

[felix15]

Ok but i could run two pumps if they where both placed in the sump together. The water would flow down the overflo to the sump, do its magic and both pumps would pump clean water to the tank. Does that make sense? Plus someone mentioned that i couldnt lower the jets due to when the pumps are off the water would run backwards? Does that sound true? Thanx again

 

[dogstar]

Right, now your geting it.
Plus I would not have the lower slots in the over flow box unless you are going to have a high stand pipe or the water in the main tank will all drain out to the sump all the way down to those lower slots when you loose power or turn the pumps off..