Every Seahorse is dead

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeresaQ http:///t/390235/every-seahorse-is-dead/20#post_3455985
So sorry for your loss, been there done that and going thru it now. I have vibro im pretty sure going thru my baby tank. I have lost most of them. its so sad.
T
OMG...What is vibro? ..............................I googled it, what a terrible thing...I'm so sorry Teresa.
 

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's not pretty. I had it in my H. reidi setup. One got better with treatment via Furan II, but it came back and killed both of them off in a fairly short time not long after that.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahobbies http:///t/390235/every-seahorse-is-dead/40#post_3456094
Yeah, it's not pretty. I had it in my H. reidi setup. One got better with treatment via Furan II, but it came back and killed both of them off in a fairly short time not long after that.
Once the tank is contaminated with such a bacteria, what can you do to clean it up? I would be afraid to add anymore horses to a tank where it had a breakout.
 

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
IMO, once the tank has been contaminated with vibrio, you're pretty much done with the everything but the glass. This happened in my 37g tank back in....2007,2008. Yes, the pretty tank you see today. But when it came down with the infection, I ditched EVERYTHING in there that was live. The rock had to go, because I didn't even trust boiling it. Sand is "cheap" and easy to replace, so out it went. The bare glass tank got a thorough cleaning with a strong bleach solution, then multiple rinses before coming back in the house. Even then, I left it dry for a good long while before starting over.
I *did* re-use a few of the fake decorations after a bleaching and boiling session. I wouldn't trust boiling alone (see the rock comment above) but between bleaching and boiling I felt it was safe. All the fake stuff left eventually anyway, but I feel that it was safe enough after those cleaning techniques.
Vibrio isn't something to mess around with. Trouble is, there's no REAL way of determining if the infection you're looking at is vibrio or some other bacterial agent...without a lab in your back pocket, you're pretty much limited to guesstimates. Furan-II is a good shotgun antibiotic because it's effective against both gram-negative (vibrio, for example) and gram-positive bacteria such as mycobacteria. It should be used sparingly, as in all antibiotics, to reduce the risk of producing anibiotic-resistant bacterial strains. I know that may sound like chicken-little talk, but heck, that's how we got mrsa and vrsa...and I'd hate to see a MRSA-style mycobacteria show up in our world!!
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahobbies http:///t/390235/every-seahorse-is-dead/40#post_3456160
IMO, once the tank has been contaminated with vibrio, you're pretty much done with the everything but the glass. This happened in my 37g tank back in....2007,2008. Yes, the pretty tank you see today. But when it came down with the infection, I ditched EVERYTHING in there that was live. The rock had to go, because I didn't even trust boiling it. Sand is "cheap" and easy to replace, so out it went. The bare glass tank got a thorough cleaning with a strong bleach solution, then multiple rinses before coming back in the house. Even then, I left it dry for a good long while before starting over.
I *did* re-use a few of the fake decorations after a bleaching and boiling session. I wouldn't trust boiling alone (see the rock comment above) but between bleaching and boiling I felt it was safe. All the fake stuff left eventually anyway, but I feel that it was safe enough after those cleaning techniques.
Vibrio isn't something to mess around with. Trouble is, there's no REAL way of determining if the infection you're looking at is vibrio or some other bacterial agent...without a lab in your back pocket, you're pretty much limited to guesstimates. Furan-II is a good shotgun antibiotic because it's effective against both gram-negative (vibrio, for example) and gram-positive bacteria such as mycobacteria. It should be used sparingly, as in all antibiotics, to reduce the risk of producing anibiotic-resistant bacterial strains. I know that may sound like chicken-little talk, but heck, that's how we got mrsa and vrsa...and I'd hate to see a MRSA-style mycobacteria show up in our world!!
Wow...that is some nasty bug. I read when I googled the Vibro, that erectus are considered carriers. Keeping the tank chilled is supposed to prevent it. I sure hope that when I swapped species I didn't doom my Kuda horses. Time will tell I guess. So far they are eating and behaving like seahorses...may they continue for many years.
 

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
Wild caught H. erectus may be carriers in some cases, but keep in mind that bacteria are pervasive. You know that MRSA I just told you about? Good chance you have a few of these bugs up in your nose. Salmonela? Yeah, it's on your hands. Fecal coliform? Check your cell phone. Good chance they are there in levels ten times more than what is considered "safe."
My point isn't to scare you, it's to let you see that we live in a bacterial soup. Evolution (or intelligent design, or divine intervention, take your pick) has let us come to a point where we can coexist somewhat peacefully with these little critters as long as something doesn't happen to tip the balance. 'Cause let me tell you honey, when we do something to give bacteria a slight advantage, they will win every time. For our immediate aquatic purposes, practicing good husbandry techniques can very literally be a lifesaver. Maintaining good water chemistry, performing regular water changes, filter changes, and chilling the tank will go a long way to keeping many "bad" bacteria at low enough levels to allow the horses' natural defenses to cope. The chilling issue in particular is greatly beneficial for the horses, as the #1 bacterial bane of our hobby are very likely different gram-negative vibrio species. As I'm sure you've read, there is quite a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest that cooler water keeps them from multiplying too quickly and overwhelming the horses' immune system.
Since you got your H. erectus from a reputable breeder, I don't think you need to worry too much about the possibility of a vibrio infection transferring to your new horses as long as you keep up your usual housekeeping!
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahobbies http:///t/390235/every-seahorse-is-dead/40#post_3456238
Wild caught H. erectus may be carriers in some cases, but keep in mind that bacteria are pervasive. You know that MRSA I just told you about? Good chance you have a few of these bugs up in your nose. Salmonela? Yeah, it's on your hands. Fecal coliform? Check your cell phone. Good chance they are there in levels ten times more than what is considered "safe."
My point isn't to scare you, it's to let you see that we live in a bacterial soup. Evolution (or intelligent design, or divine intervention, take your pick) has let us come to a point where we can coexist somewhat peacefully with these little critters as long as something doesn't happen to tip the balance. 'Cause let me tell you honey, when we do something to give bacteria a slight advantage, they will win every time. For our immediate aquatic purposes, practicing good husbandry techniques can very literally be a lifesaver. Maintaining good water chemistry, performing regular water changes, filter changes, and chilling the tank will go a long way to keeping many "bad" bacteria at low enough levels to allow the horses' natural defenses to cope. The chilling issue in particular is greatly beneficial for the horses, as the #1 bacterial bane of our hobby are very likely different gram-negative vibrio species. As I'm sure you've read, there is quite a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest that cooler water keeps them from multiplying too quickly and overwhelming the horses' immune system.
Since you got your H. erectus from a reputable breeder, I don't think you need to worry too much about the possibility of a vibrio infection transferring to your new horses as long as you keep up your usual housekeeping!
Thank you...I'm a worrier...it's just the way I am. After I had ordered a different species of horse I started thinking about the rule of not mixing them. A consideration I should have at least thought of and asked about BEFORE I ordered. Your post made me feel better.
I hope Teresa doesn't lose all the babies....
 
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