Everyone Says there are no stupid questions So here I go...

[younngballa88]

My question pertains to a refugium. How comes bubbles are the worst thing ever?

We go through such great lengths to make sure we have no bubbles. Again sorry if this is a dumb question but I am building a refugium and would like to know the answer rather then just guess. Thanks

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Younngballa88
http:///forum/post/2979133
My question pertains to a refugium. How comes bubbles are the worst thing ever?

We go through such great lengths to make sure we have no bubbles. Again sorry if this is a dumb question but I am building a refugium and would like to know the answer rather then just guess. Thanks
For the most part they are unsightly,they make your water look cloudy.Other than that i hear excessive bubble can harm fish,however I haven read anything scientific to confirm this.

 

[sickboy]

From what I have read/heard, in a refugium bubbles can help chaeto and other macros "float" away. Again, just what I have heard and read, no experience.

 

[tank a holic]

1. unsightly, as stated
2. will harm most SW fish, as stated
3. I wouldn't say float, but will inhibit macro algae growth, as stated
4. (especially if it ends up in your DT) Will cause horrendous salt creep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pbnj]

Bubbles can get trapped under/between live rock and cause die-off, creating bad water parameters.

 

[wattsupdoc]

See here post 2 and 3 are very good examples of proper method of replying to a question. Post 4 and 5 re what I would consider "not very good replies".
Post 4 first...
1. unsightly, as stated
Yes it can be.....

2. will harm most SW fish, as stated
Now,

I am not trying to be a jerk here

BUT...... This is a highly debatable subject. Additionally there has never been any real proof that any bubbles bother any fish. Yet this poster offers this information up as if it is the gospel, AND knows (from experience) that it will harm MOST fish....Sorry, but it just isn't proven...so you must not have any actual experience with it.
3. I wouldn't say float, but will inhibit macro algae growth, as stated
MY experiences tells me it will float cheato, and some other macros I have had...Never inhibited the growth much.....Some possibly..
4. (especially if it ends up in your DT) Will cause horrendous salt creep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IF it is a whole lot it will cause sever salt creep. But just unsightly micro bubbles don't contribute to any creep IME.
post 5
Bubbles can get trapped under/between live rock and cause die-off, creating bad water parameters
I have never heard this before. I have had micro bubble issues before and never experienced this myself it would be interesting to hear more about this if you actually have EXPERIENCED this. Please indicate so if you have. Likewise if you haven't actually experienced this, then please indicate so as well as where this came from..
I'm not trying to be a jerk, forgive me if it seems that way. That is not my intent. It's just if your going to post things, pleas indicate how you know things. Point and case post 2 and 3

 

[wattsupdoc]

The last scenario does sound logical. I'm not debunking it. But many many things in this hobby are wives tales....this is one way these things get started. Personally, I don't believe that it would lead to bad water issues. Possible few bubbles trapped yes. But not for long. At least not in an active well stocked tank. These would get knocked loose and naturally want to escape the rock as fish swim the rocks, the critters rock the rocks etc. etc.

 

[younngballa88]

Thanks very much everyone.

 

[pbnj]

Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2979329
The last scenario does sound logical. I'm not debunking it. But many many things in this hobby are wives tales....this is one way these things get started. Personally, I don't believe that it would lead to bad water issues. Possible few bubbles trapped yes. But not for long. At least not in an active well stocked tank. These would get knocked loose and naturally want to escape the rock as fish swim the rocks, the critters rock the rocks etc. etc.
Sure sounds like a debunk.

I've never had bubble issues, but I've read this in a few places and seems perfectly logical to me. Most sessile inverts have no way to release trapped air bubbles and may eventually die from it. Sponges, for example, die if they come in contact with air. Same goes for live rock and creatures that live on/within it.
Now, what is the likelihood that it would happen? Who knows. But does one really have to experience everything personally in order to believe it could be possible? Kind of a small-minded way to look at things, don't you think?
Hey, if you have any evidence to the contrary, please share. I enjoy being proven wrong.

 

[wattsupdoc]

It is a chronic problem in the hobby. There are sooo many things that "could happen". The problem is. when you post something up as if it is a proven method, or whatever, the next reader comes along and it sounds logical, so they post it as if it is. Pretty soon a new myth is born. For example, my green brittle starfish has a bad reputation for being a fish killer. I have heard this time and time again. Oh, when they get big they are killers" However, I have had mine for 2.5 years and NEVER had a problem....EVER...I have had the same reports from similar hobbyists...

So the exact scenario you describe is one that may or may not be a myth. WE don't know.

When posting ANYTHING you need to indicate what is associated with that,. Like your experience, I have read somewhere or blah blah. Not this is the way it is. This will actually help to prove or disprove the scenario. As now it is either proof, or open for debate and maybe some will chime in with their experience in the matter.

I did say that it seems logical didn't I? However, I don't believe it would be a huge amount . Now, if the rocks have flat surfaces or crannies they can collect it, then maybe. Maybe small pockets here and thee. Yes causing die off in that small area. Possibly many of these scattered throughout...It is possible I suppose.
It's not a narrow minded approach. It is if you look at it from a different angle, a more appropriate approach. Thereby a much better method of sharing information in the hobby.

Absolutley you can believe something can haoppen. Just the way you post about it needs to be a little different, thats all.

 

[florida joe]

Just a side note
If you have a higher form of algae in your refug. You will want to see air on the algae. a product of photosensitize

 

[younngballa88]

+ 1 wattsupdoc .

 

[thehorndaddy]

When I first converted to saltwater from years of freshwater, I allowed bubbles into my tank from the powerhead thinking it was necessary until I read otherwise. My chalk basslet did get the "eye bubble" syndrome from this and lost his eye. A bubble formed around his eye and eventually swelled up to twice the size of his eye. Eventually leaving a hole there. He survived with it for 2+ years until just the other day.

From my research, it was definitely from the bubbles.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by TheHorndaddy
http:///forum/post/2979668
When I first converted to saltwater from years of freshwater, I allowed bubbles into my tank from the powerhead thinking it was necessary until I read otherwise. My chalk basslet did get the "eye bubble" syndrome from this and lost his eye. A bubble formed around his eye and eventually swelled up to twice the size of his eye. Eventually leaving a hole there. He survived with it for 2+ years until just the other day.

From my research, it was definitely from the bubbles.
I am sorry for you loss. As far as supersaturation (gas bubble disease). it is something that is very very rare. I am interested in the amount of air your power head was introducing into your tank and the amount of surface skimming you had

 

[thehorndaddy]

Lack of surface skimming at that time. Quite a few micro-bubbles. A lot of salt creep.
Like I said, had no idea what I was doing and thought bubbles were good. I've come a long way!!!

 

[runn3rb3an]

While I was cycling my tank I went skiing for a day and when I left in the morning I saw that my canister filter was filling my whole tank with micro bubbles for some reason. When I came back I checked the next morning and my damsel had bubble eye in it's right eye and it died the next day. I thought that the bubbles were the only thing that could cause this because it was fine for about two weeks before that.

 

[wattsupdoc]

This is a exactly how this type of thing leads to myths. I understand many have had pop eye occur with micro bubbles. I do not doubt that...However your fish, you only had for 2 weeks. So you cant rule out other circumstances. I fact 2 weeks is not out of the clear yet. Many fish do die within this time frame. Mysteriously. Some contribute this to collecting methods, which with the use of cyanide is possible. As well as transfer after transfer after transfer of specimens from different SG , ph, temperatures, as well as salt brands, reportedly all these things can contribute to a fish's demise. In short, while you had micro bubble problem and it's possible that it was the cause, you cant say definitively that it is...Which, you state that the micro bubbles were the only thing that could cause this........
We really do need to try to de-myth the hobby every chance we get.
As well prevent them from popping up...

 

[runn3rb3an]

this is true and you can be 100% right but after cycling my different tanks so many times and never having this happen I thought the bubbles could be the only reason. No other damsels were effected though.

 

[tank a holic]

Originally Posted by tank a holic
http:///forum/post/2979251
3. I wouldn't say float, but will inhibit macro algae growth, as stated
4. (especially if it ends up in your DT) Will cause horrendous salt creep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had problems with micro bubbles....
when I had the problems (before I fixed the problem) the bubbles were really bad I mean really really bad (water looked like milk)
my algae never floated... but it didn't grow either, it stayed green and healthy but didn't grow
I also had salt creep like you would not believe and I must say it was horrendous.
now...
when I fixed the problem (which I admit was extreme) my algae flourished, I had to trim it regularly to keep up.... now this is an assumption (which I admit I failed to state before) but I believed that because the algae eats from nutrients in the water that all the air starved the algae and therefore inhibited growth (only conclusion I could come up with)
also after the bubbles stopped the salt creep returned to the level it was at before I added the fuge (minimal) therefore my conclusion was that because the salt creep before and after the bubbles was minimal, the bubbles caused the bad salt creep
I totally understand and agree with what you (wattsupdoc) are saying about posts, and admit I gave no explanation or reason for my post (trying to keep it shorter) but I want to show that there is a reason for what I stated and am in no way trying to pass bad info... this site is here to help, and not hinder hobbyist's and if I read a thread I know nothing about I skip and go to another
sorry for the lack of explanation