Everything new.....too new....help!

[inquiring mind]

I want to begin with a thank you and apologize for its length before you begin reading. If it is too much I completely understand, I just wanted to make sure to include the important stuff at the same time to save confusion.
I have a 36 bow front, with stock hood and light fixture, Rena 40 gallon hanging filter, Rena 35 gallon cannister filter. I used live bacteria when I first set up the tank. Put my molly in after my tank was stable. Chipped and shaped my filler rock and put that in. A couple weeks later, put in 1 blue and yellow damsel, 5 days later put in another one. Several days later put in 10 lbs of live rock. Yesterday I put in a firefish. I have a couple saltwater books, but they are often shady on the specifics. Today I read your highly informative posting and realize my initial uncomfortable feeling about what to do was more than right. I'm glad that I did not get impulsive and do what others had suggested, including local pet stores. We've had freshwater tanks for a while now, but saltwater is like breeding dogs compared to what I'm familiar with. So I need what little suggestions/help you're able to send....

I would like a few more color, but peace in my tank. I'm up for soft coral, inverts, but not much more...........I don't think. I would like to keep it kind of simple, but know my options for when I'm ready. I rely heavily on leaving my options open by getting the "best" to start with, I also think this is the most effective and cost efficient in the long run.
1. Do I need to get different lighting, and what kind? I have a place for another single light hood and I have a small night lamp already.
2. Do I need a protein skimmer and what specificly do they do?
3. I need a clean up crew, which would you suggest? I am more than willing to sacrifice not getting any certain pretty fish (incompatable) in trade for a good cleaning crew.
4. What other fish would you suggest I get or give back to the fish store? (2-yellow and blue damsels, 1-black molly, 1-firefish)
5. Are there any other necessities that I need for my tank? I have the API saltwater test kit (high range ph, nitrites, nitrates, ammonia), chlorine remover w/enzymes, but thats it.
6. I also used a little bit of coppersafe when I had a freshwater tank and now I see that it may have been a huge ignorant mistake, any suggestions?
I've enjoyed reading all of your posts and the responses and look forward to exploring more, there are so many awesome personalities sharing this captivating hobby here, I don't feel alone or as scared now. Thank you everyone.

 

[mopar9012]

If you want to eventually keep corals, get a new liight.
Look into metal halide, you said you have a 36? try a 150W metal halide or 175W metal halide( that would probably be better) This way you can start off with the easier corals and still be able to keep the harder ones, like SPS, as you become more experienced.
Take the damsels out, they become aggressive and theres prettier fish out there...IMO.
Skimmer is a good route to go, It takes a lot of waste out of the water that will cause nitrates and such...
for right now all your test kits seem to be good for the beginner. You may want to look into a calcium test kit and def get an alkalinity test kit.

 

[ahren]

i have a 36 gallow bow & i went with a 250 watt metal halide. i dont have a protein skimmer & my nitrate levels stay constant at 10ppm with 5 gallon a week water changes. +1 on getting rid of the damsels i had one that killed 3 clowns. i had to pull about 50lbs of rock out to finally catch him. you defently want a clean up crew i have about 15 snails & 10 hermit crabs the do a great job

 

[socal57che]

It sounds like you may be using tap water, too. It would be wise to switch to RO or RODI water. No need for chlorine remover. I'd remove the molly and damsels as well.
Did you treat the display with copper? If so, you may want to consider starting over. Copper is deadly to inverts. Your rock and substrate will absorb it and leech it back into the water.
If not, keep it away from your DT. You can treat fish on an individual basis in a hospital tank.
Clean up crew...I'd do some docile hermits like scarlets with nassarius and turbo snails.
I'd buy a refractometer and a turkey baster. Any tank will benefit from a skimmer, not just reefs.

 

[mopar9012]

Originally Posted by ahren
http:///forum/post/2994766
i have a 36 gallow bow & i went with a 250 watt metal halide. i dont have a protein skimmer & my nitrate levels stay constant at 10ppm with 5 gallon a week water changes. +1 on getting rid of the damsels i had one that killed 3 clowns. i had to pull about 50lbs of rock out to finally catch him. you defently want a clean up crew i have about 15 snails & 10 hermit crabs the do a great job
ive pulled out all my rock before for a fish.
But if you have a pig as a fish, like my old angel who go too big, you can just put some flake food on the surface and grab him when he comes up to eat.
I caught him in under 2 minutes.

 

[ahren]

i'll have to try that next time. my damsel was too smart as soon as he saw the net in my hand he bolted & hid in the rock

 

[inquiring mind]

I would like to thank everyone for all the advice, I really appreciate it. I'll be on the right track soon enough,

, after I absorb all the info, LOL...Mopar9012
If I add this 175 as a 2nd hood and put it on a timer, what type of light would you suggest for my original hood? I think I read 10k good for growth not so pretty, 20k pretty but sacrifice growth. Is anything higher in wattage not good or does it matter?
After I read your post, I walked in my room to look at the fish and my older damsel was challenging and picking on itself in the reflective foil background?!?! May be I will wait until he picks another fight with himself and catch his crazy fins while I still can….lol. Do you mean my other one, cute e-z going baby damzel is gonna turn mean?
Are the Coralife and AquaC still good skimmers to get or are there better?
I’m on the calcium and alkalinity tests, what kind of things are going to be happening if it gets too high or low?
Ahren
When your changing that 5 gallon, are you just siphoning the best you can to get what you can or are you moving stuff around etc.
What do you have as median? I have crushed coral, but now I wish I had gotten sand, it sounds a lot better now that I’ve read everyone’s posts. I thought if I got sand at first that it would look like the one I saw at a small fish store. But now I realize they just need a better clean up crew. Any suggestions for my crushed coral clean up crew?
Socal57che
When you said I may be using tap water, I couldn’t help but smile. Apparently this is a bad thing and I will find some RO STAT. What is the benefits of RO or RODI? What are the negatives of tap? Before, I would put the water in a 5 gallon bucket, chlorine remover and ran bubbles in the bottom for no less than 48 prior to use.  do you think that hurt them much and is there anything I need to do to fix what I’ve already done?
You say display, are you talking about the main tank compared to say, a sick tank? If that is the case than yes. I used Mardel’s ~ Coppersafe. But I had used it when I had freshwater, but not much of it. It had been a couple months since I had used before converting to saltwater. I cleaned out the tank, scrubbed the sides, changed water, put in crushed coral, let my tank run for a few days before I put anything in my tank, and haven’t used coppersafe since the freshwater. Still start over?
I like the idea of scarlets, nassarius and turbos, they look cute. Where do I find a refractometer and does this replace my hydrometer? Turkey baster, man its like 9th on the list down from duct tape here, 
In addition to my original post:
I forgot to ask, is there any good suggestions on food and is there anything that I should definitely NOT be using in there?
What is chemi-pure elite? And do I need this?

 

[inquiring mind]

I would like to thank everyone for all the advice, I really appreciate it. I'll be on the right track soon enough,

, after I absorb all the info, LOL...Mopar9012
If I add this 175 as a 2nd hood and put it on a timer, what type of light would you suggest for my original hood? I think I read 10k good for growth not so pretty, 20k pretty but sacrifice growth. Is anything higher in wattage not good or does it matter?
After I read your post, I walked in my room to look at the fish and my older damsel was challenging and picking on itself in the reflective foil background?!?! May be I will wait until he picks another fight with himself and catch his crazy fins while I still can….lol. Do you mean my other one, cute e-z going baby damzel is gonna turn mean?
Are the Coralife and AquaC still good skimmers to get or are there better?
I’m on the calcium and alkalinity tests, what kind of things are going to be happening if it gets too high or low?
Ahren
When your changing that 5 gallon, are you just siphoning the best you can to get what you can or are you moving stuff around etc.
What do you have as median? I have crushed coral, but now I wish I had gotten sand, it sounds a lot better now that I’ve read everyone’s posts. I thought if I got sand at first that it would look like the one I saw at a small fish store. But now I realize they just need a better clean up crew. Any suggestions for my crushed coral clean up crew?
Socal57che
When you said I may be using tap water, I couldn’t help but smile. Apparently this is a bad thing and I will find some RO STAT. What is the benefits of RO or RODI? What are the negatives of tap? Before, I would put the water in a 5 gallon bucket, chlorine remover and ran bubbles in the bottom for no less than 48 prior to use.  do you think that hurt them much and is there anything I need to do to fix what I’ve already done?
You say display, are you talking about the main tank compared to say, a sick tank? If that is the case than yes. I used Mardel’s ~ Coppersafe. But I had used it when I had freshwater, but not much of it. It had been a couple months since I had used before converting to saltwater. I cleaned out the tank, scrubbed the sides, changed water, put in crushed coral, let my tank run for a few days before I put anything in my tank, and haven’t used coppersafe since the freshwater. Still start over?
I like the idea of scarlets, nassarius and turbos, they look cute. Where do I find a refractometer and does this replace my hydrometer? Turkey baster, man its like 9th on the list down from duct tape here, 
In addition to my original post:
I forgot to ask, is there any good suggestions on food and is there anything that I should definitely NOT be using in there?
What is chemi-pure elite? And do I need this?

 

[ca161406]

if you get a MH fixture, put an actinic light in the fixture that you have
i would switch out the foil background because it could possibly stress out the fish, and i never had a problem with damsels being bullies...probably because my other fish ate them..but yeah
try looking at octopus skimmers, they're high end skimmers at a reasonable price and do wonders
calcium you only need to worry about when you add corals/ want coraline growth really.
most def. get some RO water or a unit. using tap will eventually destroy your tank with algae from phosphates, and the other nasty metals in tap
i dont think you need to start over if you cleaned it out well before switching over
as for food, switch it up. try some formula 1 and 2 and marine cuisine. then ast. raw frozen sea food from the grocery store
and i never heard of that before.
hope this helps

 

[inquiring mind]

Definitely too new for my own good, but what is MH and actinic lighting? My book doesn't go into depth on this subject. I suppose they think the marine aquarist has just graduated Kindergarten and don't want to overwhelm them with big words like skimmer and lighting,

Thanks by the way, I probably woke my neighbors. So I suppose you don't have disappearing damsels just some large hungry fishys? LOL...

Good to go on skimmer, food, and tap water info now, thank you very much. What do you think about a black background, I know, simple, but I'd like to keep the focus on the things I'm signing over the paycheck for...

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by Inquiring Mind
http:///forum/post/2994955
Definitely too new for my own good, but what is MH and actinic lighting? My book doesn't go into depth on this subject. I suppose they think the marine aquarist has just graduated Kindergarten and don't want to overwhelm them with big words like skimmer and lighting,

Thanks by the way, I probably woke my neighbors. So I suppose you don't have disappearing damsels just some large hungry fishys? LOL...

Good to go on skimmer, food, and tap water info now, thank you very much. What do you think about a black background, I know, simple, but I'd like to keep the focus on the things I'm signing over the paycheck for...
MH is Metal Halide. Actinic is a blue spectrum lamp.
Black is the best color for a background. It will make your specimens stand out. After a few years you may not be able to see it anyway due to coralline algae growth...which I like.
Any words we use that you aren't familiar with... add "marine aquarium" to it and google them. We will be happy to explain, but we often miss things because we see them every day and forget to convey it in a way so that you grasp the entire meaning. (like abbreviating Metal Halide with MH)
Take what we say and then research it for yourself.
About the copper...I used to believe that the copper would be absorbed by the silicone at the joints of the aquarium and leeched back into the saltwater. Some people believe this is a problem. I have decided that it is not likey to have an affect, as the silicone will retain most of the copper it absorbed. Add to this the fact that the copper that is released will be removed through regular water changes and I don't see it posing a problem. I would not use any of the equpment that was used in conjunction with the copper dosing.

 

[socal57che]

Definitely read these threads.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/301033/101-tips-to-beginning-and-maintaining-a-saltwater-aquarium
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/127007/faqs-fish-diseases-treatments-quarantine-health-info
After you do that...read them again.

They are chock full of great information.
During a water change I will blow off the rocks with a turkey baster. Blow behind them and between them. When all that crud is floating around...do the water change. Buy a 10 foot piece of clear plastic hose from lowes or home depot. Place one end in the empty bucket. Place the other end in front of a powerhead and this will start the siphon. Keep an eye on the empty bucket so it doesn't overflow onto the floor. Rinse the media from your filters in this water, not fresh water. This will keep your beneficial bacteria intact.

 

[inquiring mind]

I'm going to pick up a MH<

[hr]
lookie, lookie at my increasing salt-slang,

What wattage would you suggest for the blue spectrum?
I like your theory on copper, it makes good sense.
I know this sounds silly, but when I had guppies, I had to be careful not to stir up too much without just suctioning it up quickly and getting it out of the tank. It seemed like a few days after blowing off the rocks and crevices my fish would have fin rot or a fungus of some kind. I know guppies are overbread and overly-sensitive, so much that everything I've read about guppy lovers = them removing everything from the tank and running bare-bottom. Is this not the case in saltwater?
I found a couple of those web links long after I had already posted my question and received your original reply. I felt bad bothering everyone with something that I should have took a few more minutes and explored before asking. Although even now after I've read most of them, you have given me even more in depth advice and rationale for certain techniques or good products. Thank you for your time and sharing your experiences and advice, I really appreciate it and I'll bet my fish REALLY appreciate it...

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by Inquiring Mind
http:///forum/post/2998163
I'm going to pick up a MH<

[hr]
lookie, lookie at my increasing salt-slang,

What wattage would you suggest for the blue spectrum?
I would suggest T5 for your actinic, Post a question in the lighting forum for recommendations. I run PCs and don't have any first hand experience.
Originally Posted by Inquiring Mind
http:///forum/post/2998163
I know this sounds silly, but when I had guppies, I had to be careful not to stir up too much without just suctioning it up quickly and getting it out of the tank. It seemed like a few days after blowing off the rocks and crevices my fish would have fin rot or a fungus of some kind. I know guppies are overbread and overly-sensitive, so much that everything I've read about guppy lovers = them removing everything from the tank and running bare-bottom. Is this not the case in saltwater?
Blow off the rocks, but don't disturb the subsrtate. You can clean the very top layer of sand, but don't mix it all around. Lots of people run bare bottom, but I just don't like the look. The sandbd is an important feature of your natural filter and people even add remote deep sand beds due to their benefits. Healthy fish will have a good slime coat and most are not affected by blowing off the rocks during a water change. In fact, my fish love sifting through the plumes for possible edibles.
Originally Posted by Inquiring Mind
http:///forum/post/2998163
I found a couple of those web links long after I had already posted my question and received your original reply. I felt bad bothering everyone with something that I should have took a few more minutes and explored before asking. Although even now after I've read most of them, you have given me even more in depth advice and rationale for certain techniques or good products. Thank you for your time and sharing your experiences and advice, I really appreciate it and I'll bet my fish REALLY appreciate it...

Please don't feel like you're being a bother. We want to see you succeed and most of us are more than happy to steer you to good info. I have a list of helpful links that I send people if they want. Email me at socal57chevy @ yahoo.com and I'll send them to you. Everything from identification of specimens to DIY projects and tons of stuff in between.

 

[bs21]

another thought on water is distilled water. I used it for a long time before getting RO unit. does the tank have a hood with a light in it? If so you will have to remove it for a halide.....which is not necessary right now if you don't have corals. But if you want to get one now anyway then I would go with a 14k bulb. It still gives good color and growth. You could also add an actinic bulb in another fixture if you wanted colors to stand out even more.
notice you mentioned chemi pure. that is a product similar to carbon in that it absorbs natrates pollutants from water and helps make more clear. I wouldn't bother using it religiously but can't hurt now and then.
food I alternate between home made recipe and pellets but up to you the two mentioned above are good though if you want to use those
probably read countless times on this site but im going to repeat it any way. The conscientious marine aquarist by Fenner and the new marine aquarium by paletta are two very worthwhile books that cover alot of topics. easy to read format. have step by step setup instructions also. Good idea to have one or both in case you have an important decision to make and can't get advise on it.
p.s. search feature and archives = fantastic. they are your friend but still don't hesitate to ask questions. and welcome to SWF

 

[inquiring mind]

Remove the hood or the bulb?
I forgot to mention, socal57che gave advice for not disturbing the sand substrate during the water change, but I have crushed coral, same situation? I've read that sand or crushed coral are completely up to the person, but I chose crushed because that is what the pet shop suggested. Later, they mentioned because it was easier, but I don't have to have "easier", I want what is best, regardless of its work. Should I change now or is it that bad?
I'm going to the bookstore tomorrow and look for those 2. Bout the time I think, "just one more question and I'm good to go..."
I'm a mess, but thanks to the advice, I'm understanding my tank and fish more everyday.
Thank you for your response, I appreciate it.

 

[socal57che]

You can (and need to) vacuum CC more aggressively from what I hear...I have always used aragonite sand. Supposedly CC collects and holds more trash.
I think that bs21 is talking about a standard hood, but he kinda lost me,too.

 

[bs21]

lol translation from brain to text always gets me messed up. My head moves faster than my typing..... Yea I was saying if the tank comes with your every day plain light hood you will have to remove this for a Halide. Depending on the type of hood you may not be able to use it for a reef anyway because of the type of bulb it accepts.
Personally I like sand best instead of cc. its my opinion you get more benefit from sand as far as filtering etc.... but there is probably still an ongoing discussion on wether or not cc contributes to nitrate buildup.
IF it doesn't make sense still maybe someone else can explain.
p.s. what i was saying above is that getting a new hood or new light fixture isn't a priority right now if there are no corals because fish don't grow from light. However fish colors look better under better lights. so up to you if you want to buy one now or research more on the type of corals and lighting you will want.