Everything your ever wanted to know about Southdown

[jhead]

I stole this from another message board. It was posted by "Grumpy Vet". I don't feel right about linking to it, since it's on a competing website. So I'm plagiarizing it as a benefit to the reefing community. I don't think Grumpy will mind a bit.
"Hi all.
I thought perhaps I could help everyone out a little bit by consolidating all information on the southdown sand situation w/ Home Depot.
The reason I do this - it keeps popping up - but not the whole story - so after a couple phone calls, a few HD trips and some research here we go:
Southdown tropical play sand is the new thing in reef beds. Why? A study was done and found that this sand has a "perfect" mixture of particulate size for DSBs. Don't ask me - I use CC and am intent on killing my fish. I got some for my seahorse tank and refugium.
Ok - now who can get it? Unfortunately it is only available from Home Depot in the Northeast. Southdown is (was) a regional company from Pennsylvania. Last year in Oct/Nov they were purchased by a company called Cemex. This is a company based in Mexico that "financial investors" believe will be restructuring to concentrate solely on Cement products and may severely decrease or stop the ancillary products of lime and sand Southdown does or did manufacture.
What does this mean? According to Home Depot - they are having more and more problems getting Southdown Sand. My feeling - get it while you can - as it may not be around in the near future. Conjecture solely - but certainly possible.
So - if a company like Home Depot is having problems getting a product - what do they do? They find another source. Home Depot has done that.
Caveat Reefer
The SKU for Southdown play sand is 578-819. This is a universal SKU for 2 different vendors of play sand. The other supplier is NOT Southdown and looks strikingly different. If you read nothing else - read this -
Do Not Order Southdown Playsand w/ this SKU or description and Expect to get Southdown.....The manufacturer will vary and needs to be physically checked by you or the HD guy.
To help things along if you call Home Depot or go there the product is found in one of two places. It is found by the lumber or in the Garden Center. The Garden Center manager is who does the ordering and that is "division" or "section" 28 (Garden).
Some Home Depots will consider doing transfers of this product. I made some calls and found that they will charge a customer $35 for a "stock transfer" regardless of 2 bags or 1 skid. The problem is getting them to make good on this or getting them to actually get it done. I have read several threads where getting HD to actually do the transfer was an exercise in futility. To my knowledge it has not been done successfully yet. This is probably due to the managers getting paid on turn and earn (low inventory) and the lack of profit from a bag of sand. "
Part of the same thread
"It also seems, like I reported earlier, that the product is stocked only the Northeast (including New England). It is not stocked in every location by any stretch of the imagination. Several people did as I did and found that Southdown's SKU is not listed on the Home Depot website. I called and asked why. Apparently if it is not UPS"able" it does not go on the website.
During the conversation w/ Home Depot it turns out there are actually 5 manufacturers listed under this sku that make playsand for Home Depot NE region. The northeast region is defined as northern Virginia market over to Pennsylvania and into New England. If Southdown is at a store that is not in this area - it is a fluke.
The Home Depot policy according to the manager at customer service I talked to re: shipping Southdown between stores is "Get Bent". So - if you want it shipped to your local HD - polish up on your smooth talking, ask for a lady in the Garden Center and do your very best Barry White voice.......we got it together now baby.......
The manager suggested that if I really wanted Southdown - call them directly and pool an order. So I called Southdown. The number for Southdown Sales and Customer Service (located in Easton, PA) is 800-526-1753. The closest manufacturing plant to me is in Thomasville, PA (York, PA) and they do sell direct to the public in skid quantities and will even do a will call (pick-up).
They also have a plant in northwestern New Jersey:
1 Limecrest Rd
Lafayette, NJ 07848
(973) 383-2000 "
HTH
Sorry for the long post if it bothers you

 

[jbeck]

Im in massachusetts and could not find it at any home depots or hardware stores. Found it at agway.

 

[scubamedic]

And to add to this a little. It seems one of the actual miners of some of the southdown is Marcona Ocean Industries. They are located at 20 Ave M, Fort Pierce, Fl 34952. It is my understanding that they will sell aragonite sand at the plant for $20 a pick-up load.

 

[jhead]

OK I'll add to it also, more from the same post.
"This sand is shipped to southdown from Marcona Ocean Industries which is out of Ft. Pierce Florida. They sell to both Southdown, AND Carib-Sea. (they also sell to Martin Marrieta in jacksonville, among others). Marcona Ocean Industries, the company that mines the stuff, does so in the carribean, and has a special agreement with carib-sea. They have a sort of "noncompete" agreement that says that they will not sell sand to anyone doing reefs. Kinda like panasonic selling its 36" pc bulbs only to custom sealife. Same type deal. anyways, marcona sells to Southdown, Inc. and I am sure that they have told Southdown what the scoop is. (and Southdown probably told HD).
How do I know this? I spent ALOT of time researching it last year, and actually talked to the plant manager at Marcona. Nice guy, I talked to him for a while, and he eventually asked what it was for.,.. I said...."uh.... not for fishtanks???" and he said "right answer" and then proceded to tell me all this stuff. The one thing that he did warn about was to NEVER EVER mention that you would be using it for aquarium use. Glad I had been thru this already with panasonic trying to get cheap PCs.
Thread
I contacted Marcona, and the deal is that they usually only sell in bulk. What is bulk you may ask? 100tons. I have worked out a deal with the plant supervisor at marcona to get a truckload (pickup truck - about 1 ton) of oolithic sand (washed dried and sifted) for about $20.00 I have also worked it out to get a truckload from jacksonville of the non strained variety (full of shells and stuff).
All of this comes from a cay in the bahamas where Marcona has a 24/7 mining operation and fills a boat that has a 3000ton/hr conveyer! (big boat) anyways, they WILL NOT SELL IT TO YOU if you even mention the words: fish, aquarium, tank, reef, saltwater, etc. They WILL sell it to you if you tell them its for your shrubs in your front yard and that you have used it before lots of times and that you are sure that this what you want. The key here is that you have to make a trip to either Ft. Pierce or Jacksonville, FL Monday - Friday 7am-4pm. Thats it, no alternatives. I am thinking about doing it soon, but have to take time off work... i will try and post here if i do get it, just to fill everyone in.
Give them a call - tell them you want it for your bushes. They will sell it to you.. but you have to shovel it yourself.. (the smallest front end loader they have carries 5 yards ) "

 

[mikester311]

jhead,
I live in jacksonville and I tried to find Southdown everywhere and never had any luck. So, you are saying that this company Marcona here in Jacksonville has the sand and will sell it to the public?
Mike

 

[jhead]

As I said this is not original research from me. It is a combination of threads from various posts.My intent in posting this with to consolidate as much information on the subject as possible in one thread.
But, it is my understanding that the company in Jacksonville sells the sand unscreened. The original person that posted this message said he had to worked out a deal with the plant manager to get just a truckload.
Do us all a favor and give them a call if they are local to you and post your findings. Personally I don't need a 100 tons.

 

[ntvflgirl]

Mikester,
I'm in Panama City, and would love to have about a hundred pounds if you actually go and get some. I wonder how many pounds a truckload would be, and if you could find others close to you to split it?! LMK.

 

[jhead]

bump

 

[cc0905]

I found a similiar product @ Wal-Mart in Portsmouth NH, I think the important thing to consider is that the product is sandbox sand, that is, it is sterilized and has has roughly the same grain size as southdown