everytime I do a water change!!!!

[puff(er) daddy]

I have a 125 gal tank with 10 Mex. turbo's,1 fighting couch,and a green brittle star. I usally do 30 gal w/c's every month and when I do all my inverts die!!!! The reason I do 30 gals. is I have very high nitrats(140). This time I think I know where I went wrong. I had my reserve water ready. When I tested the water the Ca was low(320). So I added Seachem Reef Adv. Ca. Since it was reserve water I exceeded the 24 ppm/day caution. I let it sit for 24hrs with the powerhead.
The next day I added 30 gals. of water and everything looked great. Six hrs later snails were dropping like crazy. The brittle star came out from behind the rocks and layed on the sand in plain eye sight. The fighting couch moved for about 3 inches and never moved again.
I still see little to no movement out of all inverts. The snails look as if they are tring to jump out of their shells.
I tested the water the next day and it is 530 from 430. Is 530 deadly? Should I remove all the inverts? How do I lower Ca?

 

[watcher]

are you sure your salt is at the same level? Inverts are very sensitive to that.

 

[piscesblue]

are you using a copper bucket or water from copper pipes?

 

[richierich2000]

hay PiscesBlue nice tank I like the blue shrooms and your coralline algae is dark that is cool!!!!!!!!!!

 

[puff(er) daddy]

Salinity was a the same level. No copper.
It's been over 24hrs. and I just topped off my water and I had a look at the inverts. The fighting couch has moved a little and the Mex. turbo's are not moving but I still see a little life. The brittle star is moving a little more. I haven't had the lights on since the w/c.
What to do?

 

[wolffam]

Was the reserve water R/O? What are your phosphate levels? I do not believe that Calcium is your problem. Is it possible that you have clorine in you reserve water (Tap water)? Why are your nitrates that high (140)? Good luck! HTH

 

[frankl15207]

Have you tried 10% weekly instead of the 25% per month? That volume of a change is generally recommended for fish only tanks but not for reefs.
Are you checking the water temperature of the new water and equalizing it with the main tank? How about the PH? That is a large enough change to have an abrupt effect on both.

 

[piscesblue]

Thanks RichieRich2000. My tank has changed drastically in the past 9 months, I'll get some updated pics soon.

 

[dad]

I'll agree with doing smaller water changes everyweek.
Your nitrate levels should be addressed though.
How deep is your dsb? How often do you feed and how much?
Any info might help.

 

[puff(er) daddy]

I didn't want to make too long of a post the first time so I didn't mention my past misstakes. As I mentioned in the first post, there are no fish in the tank so I'm not feeding at all. I use water from a tap water filter. I've been dealing with the nitrate thing for some time now and don't really what to go too deep into it(it's a mess). But they are coming down slowly. I basical don't know what the problem was if not the Ca. PO4 is at 0.2ppm. The pH 8.2, Ammonia 0.0, nitrite 0.0 .

 

[bbreaux1]

how low does the nitrates drop when you do a water change? that may be causing the problem

 

[frankl15207]

In theory, nitrates should be reduced in proportion to the water removed, so immediate would be the answer (25% water change should equal 25% reduction).
However, that drastic of a reduction can also cause just as much distress as the higher levels to begin with. That is why smaller water changes are better than larger.
Anytime nitrates reach those kinds of levels something else is causing the problem (too large of a bioload, inadequate water movement, overfeeding, and so on).

 

[puff(er) daddy]

I don't no why my nitrates are so high I don't have a huge bio load there are no fish. I have great water movement,and I'm not using tap water. I know I don't have enough l/r or a deep enough sand bed (55lbs l/r, 3 inch sand bed), which I'm currently working on. You don't think that could be the problem. I try to get a good clean up crew but every w/c they all die. I doing something wrong and Frankl1507 I think you hit the nail on the head. Any other suggestions are welcome.

 

[puff(er) daddy]

The water I use is nitrate free and for filteration I have 60lbs of l/r and 3 inches of l/s. I also have a Amirical wet/dry minus the bio balls.
It's been three days and I'm still seeing little to no movement out of my inverts(green brittle star,fighting couch,and 10 Mex. trochus). What should I do? I don't want to throw them away b/c they are not completly dead.
I just changed 5 gallons of water tonight. That should reduce my Ca (560).

 

[frankl15207]

What kind of algae conditions do you have?
What kind of waste is your skimmer producing (quantity and color)?
You mention no bioballs in the filter. Is there an accumulation of debris in the bottom of the filter?
The CA (Calcium I assume) is high Should be around 380 to 420. That shouldn't cause a nitrate problem though unless it's killing something else in the tank that's feeding the bacteria.
Have you taken a sample of your water to your LFS for testing? Have you tried calling your municipal water company to see what they add to the water?
Have you run a nitrate test on your replacement water before putting it into the tank?
This is probably one of those things that someone looking at the tank could say "that's what's causing the problem, but in a forum it's a tougher call to make.
At a minimum, you might want to try to set up a quick and dirty 10 gallon tank, place all new water in it, add a powerhead and some light, move some of your live rock and get the invertebrates into it with normal acclimation proceedings. If life returns, you at least know it's a problem within the tank.
Keep writing and we'll all keep trying to figure it out. Somewhere there is an answer.

 

[tvan]

From a book I've read calcium levels above 500 cause inverts problems trying to absorb it. High calcium can cause ph and alk to drop. According to what I have read. I would have a LFS do a complete test of your water. including oxygen levels. HTH Tom

 

[frankl15207]

golfish
Generally no, but since the water changes don't seem to be having an effect on reducing the nitrate level, we need to rule out a problem with the replacement water.
I still think it's in the tank itself and the calcium level is causing a general problem along with the volume of the water change having an adverse effect on the inhabitants. Right now it's an elimination problem starting at both ends and trying to get to the middle.

 

[bobothewizard]

Personally i think the amout of water your changing is to high, 30 gallons for a 125 i think is alot. I do about 10 gallons every 2 weeks in a 120.

 

[puff(er) daddy]

I think we're getting off the topic. My original post was not about my nitrates it was about the inverts not surviving my water changes. I know nitrates aren't the problem in that situation. I have a pretty good idea on where my nitrats are coming from so thanks for the info you guys are giving me but that's not what I need to know. I have posted several topics in the past on my nitrate problem and I'm working on that.
Any other post/ideas on the initial topic would be apprieciated.
After the 5 gallon w/c the Ca today is at 460ppm.

 

[puff(er) daddy]

I'm changing 30 gallons every month not every week. The reason I change so much and should change more, is because I'm reducing my nitrates.
Ther is no debris at the bottom of my filter.