Experience adding fish to new tank

[franz]

Hello,
I am hoping that I can get some feedback/answers to adding fish.
:notsure: I am waiting for my 46 gal tank to 'cycle' and am planning my order of fish from SWF. I would like to add 2 clowns, 1 Coral beauty, 1 midas blenny and a cleaning crew.
Since they will be ordered...and come all at once....
My question is...can they be added all at once (after acclimation process) to the tank or will that wreak havoc on my chemical levels.
Also, what has been your experience or helpful hints in adding the fish simultaneously???
Thanks in advance,
Franz:happyfish

 

[loopy]

hmmm, i am a novice novice, but....I don't think you should add them all at once. cleaning crew, probably. Fish...don't think so. Can't you order them one or two at a time? I could be wrong, but others will know for sure. I am the 'Boo Boo Queen', take it from me...if they tell ya something.........listen
Great luck to you!!!!

 

[georgehorn]

i dont think you should have any problems addin all them at the same time since they havent established any territorys. but wtf do i know iam a newbie..........(i have to learn how to spell)..........lol

 

[greatfullreefer]

1 fish every couple of weeks. If you add them all at once you will most likely experience an ammonia spike causing another cycle. You need to give your bacteria a chance to slowly catch up with the bio-load. However a cleanup crew will add very little to your bio-load.

 

[ophiura]

Agreed, IMO you should never add that many fish at once as Greatfullreefer mentioned. I don't like to see tanks fully stocked, personally, for a year at least. Additionally, some fish such as tangs and angels do not do well in young immature tanks and should be put in, IMO, until the tank is a good 6 months old.
If you have a hard cycle (meaning you pushed the tank with shrimp and had a clear change in water quality levels over time) and you have a suitable amount of LR, then you might be able to get away with adding the two clowns and the clean up crew....but definitely not all those fish at once. Recipe for disaster.

 

[scubadoo]

Franz...you are about to commit the error that frustrates most new folks to this hobby...putting too much in too fast. In my opinion, I would add one small fish every two to four weeks or onger. This will allow your biological filtration to grow with the increased bio-load.
Adding all that stuff at once....you run the rish of restarting a tank cycle.
In my 30 plus years in this hobby.......mutiple fish add=multiple casualty and frustration. Only success I've had is when tank contents were transferred to a new tank...but the bio stuff went with the fish. ..live rock, substrate, etc.

 

[bigdogzack]

At the risk of starting a war...there is a way to add a lot of fish at once (especially benificial when you are adding fish that will set up territories and be very reluctant to accept newbies down the road)...if you already have all of your LR and sand in the display tank (i.e. you don't want to add anymore), set up a refugium/sump and in it use "araga-live" (they actually have a recommended safe "new fish allowed per pound" right on the bag) substrate or one of the other products that has live bacteria in it, also use a "pro-biotic" addative and or a product such as "cycle" to jump-start your active bacteria of the tank (I know, these products don't address the nitrates, but nitrates should'nt cause any significant problems in the short-term in a
FOWLR tank)...also, can use any of the multitude of amonia/nitrate/nitrate "neutralizer/adsorb" products to also help control the bio-load of the tank while it reaches full maturity...another thing that really helps, if you know anyone with an established system, get some of their substrate to seed yours (spread it around in your tank), make sure and pro-offer a bag of replacement substrate...

 

[franz]

Thanks for all the feedback.

It is unfortunate that you can not place a smaller order from SWF to get fish/etc.
Will end up going to one of the local shops...who will steer me to buy fish that; don't get along, get too big, are extremely difficulty to care for and are overpriced!

Maybe they will recommend one of their sharks that they keep in 29 gal tanks! Nothing like supporting your local businesses.
Seriously though, thanks for your comments
Franz

 

[ophiura]

Having an established biofilter like LR, LS and additives does not necessarily prevent an ammonia spike from arising after sudden overstocking.
For example, where I used to work, there was a freshwater Q system...had lots of Eheim filters running to keep them "seeded" should they need to be taken and put on a truly isolated system. But overall the bioload (ammonia source) was low, and the bacteria in this "seeded" filter died off to levels where there was enough "food" (ammonia) to sustain it. When that filter was pulled off and put on a tank with a sudden introduction of a lot of bioload, there was an ammonia spike as the bacteria needed time to grow enough to use that amount of ammonia. There was a lag time equivalent to the reproduction rate of the bacteria in establishing a larger population- and lag time with ammonia is not a good, idea, IMO. So there is always a risk with adding lots of livestock at once regardless of your biofilter, IMO...unless you take out lots of fish and replace them with about the same. All the ideas about adding are great - no war - just different opinions
Franz - I am sure that people buy individual fish of SWF along with a clean up crew and easily meet the minimum, if that is your concern (and you will probably spend more at the local store often with no guarantee at all).

 

[bigdogzack]

ophiura - I agree with your inpute...that's why I was suggesting the araga-live, cycle (bacteria additive), and amonia/nitrite/nitrate adsorb componants to offset the lack of bacteria in the existing tank...I have had extreme dificulty in adding fish to an established tank (i.e. newbie got the crap kicked out of it and or was killed or died later from secondary bacterial/fungal infections) and have used the approach I discussed with great succes (e.g. I set up a 75 gal and totally stocked the tank with aggressive fish via this approach...monitored the tank closely but suffered no loses)...point I'm trying to make is: Having "to much" bacteria (araga-live, cycle, pro-biotic, etc.) won't hurt anything but will alow you to "load" a tank with agressive fish so they can establish their relationships in an amicable way...:thinking:

 

[ophiura]

Good, a good discussion to break from boring work!
I definitely agree on the LS, LR and even stuff like Cycle (though I also think some of the bottled stuff is more promise than actual value). It is often why with a lot of LR, you can still try and push the tank hard with ammonia (dead shrimp) and get no measurable readings during the cycle. But it depends on whether your rock is cured, how much you have, etc...so it is tough to generalize.
But the bacteria, if not given enough food in terms of ammonia, will die off some to meet available (limiting) ammonia levels...which is what happened in my Eheim situation above...some bacteria still there to keep a small bioload at bay, but when it was overstocked suddenly, it couldn't handle the sudden increase. Now it brought down levels faster than a brand new clean filter media would...but it couldn't handle the sudden increase.
I disagree though on the chemical absorption things in a young tank. In an emergency situation, perhaps, but the need to use them is proof, IMO, that the tank is overburdened and you are kind of walking a very thin line between success and failure. These chemicals address a symptom but not really the cause (which you are addressing with the sand, rock, cycle, etc) but at the same time the symptom (ammonia) is needed to establish the proper biological filter. So I am more of a "let it run its course" kind of gal.
I have to throw in that I am not sure that Franz would experience an ammonia spike at the point, but it is a risk. He could add them all, watch for ammonia - and may never see any depending on LR, LS and how hard it cycled. But I think the more delicate fish might be lost anyway...not for sure, but not ideal, IMO. So I prefer to not risk it and go slowly. Larger predators tend to be relatively tougher than things like tangs and angels...and in this case throwing reef type fish all in a young tank right off may cause losses from unrelated water quality issues (and even untestable things).
I agree that what you have given is a method for quickly adding a lot of bioload at once...but I disagree on whether it is the best way to go, which is what is great about these boards! Thanks for the distraction from work !