Filter needed? what do u think?

fatmatt

Member
Well i went to the LFS to price out LR(they where out.) and the guy asked my about my setup i told him its not set up yet im pricein things out and lookin for RO water(cant find it..) he asked about filter,skimmer, ect. Told him No filter, No skimmer 20gal tank.
He says it is very hard to keep LR and its better to havea filter but i dont need a skimmer for such a small tank. So i asked him what type of filter is good for this size... He names some thought i forgot... so im wonderin what you guys should i buy a filter or should i relie on the LR im goin to get. Whats best. If i should get a filter any sugestins? :help:
 

starkissed

Member
I don't know much about how to set up a tank, but my bf is helping me (although I will not let him just do it for me I want to lear a lot on my own, but he is there if I need him, BTW he use to run a fish room at a pet store and is going to school to be an aquatic vet)
Anyways, On my 20 gal high we started with an undergravel filter hooked up to two powerheads, I also have a biowheel backpack filter for a tank up to 50gal. I also have a red sea protein skimmer that came of my bf's old 50 gal tank.... I have all this in addition to live rock. I am Just finishing my cycleing process but my tank has been stable since like day 3 so I guess we did something right. I got a damsil at about day 4 and he showed no signs of stress when coming to his new home ( and that is good since we only added my tank water into his bag and let him sit for about 10mins and then netted him out, I know I was asking for him to die) but he took very well to his new space and he loves it. I also have about a cup of what I am told is grape carlupa alge in my tank and I am told that that reduces nitrates. I plan on pulling a lot of that out and growing it in my tank that I will have set up on had incase of any fishy fights or sick fish. This massive amount is working for me but let us know if you try it without and tell us how it works out!!!
 

sw65galma

Active Member
Originally Posted by Starkissed
I don't know much about how to set up a tank, but my bf is helping me (although I will not let him just do it for me I want to lear a lot on my own, but he is there if I need him, BTW he use to run a fish room at a pet store and is going to school to be an aquatic vet)
Anyways, On my 20 gal high we started with an undergravel filter hooked up to two powerheads, I also have a biowheel backpack filter for a tank up to 50gal. I also have a red sea protein skimmer that came of my bf's old 50 gal tank.... I have all this in addition to live rock. I am Just finishing my cycleing process but my tank has been stable since like day 3 so I guess we did something right. I got a damsil at about day 4 and he showed no signs of stress when coming to his new home ( and that is good since we only added my tank water into his bag and let him sit for about 10mins and then netted him out, I know I was asking for him to die) but he took very well to his new space and he loves it. I also have about a cup of what I am told is grape carlupa alge in my tank and I am told that that reduces nitrates. I plan on pulling a lot of that out and growing it in my tank that I will have set up on had incase of any fishy fights or sick fish. This massive amount is working for me but let us know if you try it without and tell us how it works out!!!
Not to rain on your parade or anything and everyone does have thier own way...but.....
Everything you are doing is pretty much wrong...If your BF worked at a Freshwater Fish room that would explain a lot.
I mean it works....sometimes...but there are better ways to do it..
First off Cycling usually takes more than 3 days...more like 2 weeks for a proper cycle. I can explain in better detail why...but the quick and dirty way is..
Pretend you work out lifting weights and lets say you want to be able to lift 100lbs, you can't just start at 100lbs...YOu have to work your way up to 100lbs...That is what saltwater bacteria have to do..They have to grow enough to be able to process the waste, this takes time.
2nd of all putting Fish in there is the old method..it's very cruel and basically tortures the fish. You can accomplish the same thing with just feeding regular food into the tank and letting it rot, this will cause amonia, just like fish do when goto the bathroom...
Or some people add a cocktail shrimp from the freezer section at the grocery store and just let it rot on the bottom. Till you see your Amonina rise, then fall.
Also You DO NOT want a Undergravel filter...Nore do you want gravel or crushed coral...You want sand....But again, they will work...just not as effeciently..Undergravel fitlers are like real old cars with carburators...They work...but it's very very old technology...and will make your life harder in the long run.
Now you will probably just read this and do what you're gonna do anyway...but for any of the other people who are reading..this might save a few people..
Also adding fish must be done real slowly...not like freshwater you can dump them in pretty quick...saltwater you want to do like 1 fish a month...
 

starkissed

Member
I know it takes a while to cycle (and no he worked with salt water) I am not useing crushed coral alone over the undergravel filter.... we used a combination of sand and crused coral .... layered it sand on bottom and crused coral on top since differnt things grow better in each substrate. The guy at the LFS also agreed with this method !!! and no it wasn't the same store he worked at. Also we did use a bottle of something to help with the cycle that adds tons of bacteria to the tank. I know I probably shouldn't have added the fish right away but everything was reading great!!! ( we were also prepared to put it in his tank if there were any signs of a problem we were not trying to be inhumane) About the cycle time I am just over 2 weeks and everything is great. The coraline alge is spreading slowly but it still is .... My carlupa is growing.... all Levels are great ..... I still don't plan on adding anything else for two weeks to a month just to let the algea spread a little more. The fish is doing wonderful. So since I had 100% sucess with this meathod tell me again why it is wrong
 

i likefish

New Member
I have a penguin 330 on a 30 gal tank and it works fine.It's a hang off the back kind. I also have 2 powerheads to circulate the water.
 

i likefish

New Member
I have a hang off the back penguin/emperor 330 and works great.I also have 2 powerheads to circulate the water.
 

f1shman

Active Member
Starkissed, I don't think hes saying its wrong, just that it will cause problems in the future and most saltwater aquarists have adopted a better way of doing things.
 

starkissed

Member
Thanks F1shMan .... I am planning on upgrading and I ran into some unfortunate car problems so we did the best with what we had for the time being. I do agree there are other ways but some of the equipment is old equipment from one of his old 55 gal tanks that we are making due with .... Hopeing to get a few nice corals started in this tank then upgrading to a larger one when I have some more money. (I will get the proper supplies for that tank) but this is working great for me now I wouldn't change a thing.
 

ophiura

Active Member
It doesn't matter if you layered the sand and crushed coral. With time, the sand will sink (probably through the undergravel filter) and the crushed coral will come to the surface...speaking from experience on that one. And the undergravel filter also failed with time. It may not fail immediately in large part because you have a skimmer running as well. But the undergravel will be a nutrient trap, often times creating high nitrate issues regardless of other export mechanisms. Macroalgae growth in a main tank can also be an issue (it can take over) which is why most people prefer a refugium type system for that.
I would say just about any hang on filter is fine for the tank in the initial question. Use it primarily for circulation, add a power head or two as well. Your primary biological filtration will be carried out by your LR so things like biowheels are not necessary. A hang on skimmer in place would be a good alternative...a good alternative indeed, IMO.
 

ophiura

Active Member
It will help with circulation and with running carbon, etc. I would use one personally...I would use a hang on skimmer though in place of that if it is an option.
 

sw65galma

Active Member
Originally Posted by Starkissed
I know it takes a while to cycle (and no he worked with salt water) I am not useing crushed coral alone over the undergravel filter.... we used a combination of sand and crused coral .... layered it sand on bottom and crused coral on top since differnt things grow better in each substrate. The guy at the LFS also agreed with this method !!! and no it wasn't the same store he worked at. Also we did use a bottle of something to help with the cycle that adds tons of bacteria to the tank. I know I probably shouldn't have added the fish right away but everything was reading great!!! ( we were also prepared to put it in his tank if there were any signs of a problem we were not trying to be inhumane) About the cycle time I am just over 2 weeks and everything is great. The coraline alge is spreading slowly but it still is .... My carlupa is growing.... all Levels are great ..... I still don't plan on adding anything else for two weeks to a month just to let the algea spread a little more. The fish is doing wonderful. So since I had 100% sucess with this meathod tell me again why it is wrong

Exactly like everyone else has said...
It's like building your foundation for your house using weak cement...
It'll hold for a while but down the road it'll crack and your house will fall down.
I've seen undergravel filters work in Very light bioload situations...Meaning 2 fish in a 180gal tank..
The sand will fall into it rendering it useless, and all you'll have is crushed coral at the top.
Big things always work thier way to the top...Don't ask me how...it just does.
Basically the ocean took billions of years to develop...you can't recreate it in 3 days.
Like i said...you didn't do any wrong per say...there are just better and more effecient ways of doing things that will save you lots of aggrivation in the future...
Since you're not to far into it...I'd at the very least take the undergravel filter out...6months from now you'll be having uncontrollable nitrate problems...
LFS all use them becuase they are cheap, but they also have 1,000's of gallons of water too, so it isn't so bad...
 

golfish

Active Member

Originally Posted by Fatmatt
so do i NEED
a filter?

Yes, Live rock being the best filter you can buy...A GOOD skimmer would be nice too.
 
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