Filter sock

[the river reef]

I am designing my first DIY sump/ refugium... I need feedback on whether I should run my intake through a filter sock before the skimmer or not? It will change my design slightly and need to decide ASAP. I have read about changing and keeping it very clean. I was wondering if they are really worth the extra maintenance? After IO get some feedback on the sock I will tighten up my design and post pics for feedback... Thanks!

 

[the river reef]

Also, I am running a dual intake, one into my skimmer section and the other into the refugium section. Should I have socks on both inputs if I decide to go that way?

 

[njbillyv]

I've made three refugiums now so I'm no expert but I have learned a few things.
IMO - Running with a sock is the way to go, keeps the fuge MUCH cleaner. Go with the biggest sock you can. I just change the sock out every weekend works great. Wash the dirty one in your washing machhine with nothing in it and just switch them out.
Very Important: The section going from the intake section (with the skimmer) into the actual refugium section, make three openings for water to flow, Make the bottom two about 1/2" wide horizontal, one opening right above the sand, the second halfway between the sand and the water level, and the third put verticle slits along the top. One center opening doesn't allow for good water movement and tumbling of the macro-algae.
Lastly, the section between the fuge and the return pump, definately use three pieces of glass, over, under, over, and leave room for a sponge to eliminate micro-bubbles.
Good luck!

 

[acrylic51]

Why not throw some drawings up to critique them before you start building.....Several "evil" minds can make it super simple and easy.....
As far as filter socks there's no real answer, comes down to personal preference......I've built way more than my fair share of sumps......Socks do come in handy, but as with anything else they have pros and cons......Socks as you mentioned do need to be serviced quite regularly.....Not beating a dead horse, but depending on circumstances the socks might need to be changed out every other day to keep things top notch, really depends on the system....If your not shutting the system down during feeding, then they need to be changed more regularly....
You could build a bubble tower in your intake section which would eliminate the need for filter socks and would do the job that a filter sock would do. You would or could fill the bubble tower with rubble rock to break up any possible bubbles and such.....
As far as recommendations on the build of the walls....I disagree some....You don't want or need slots going into the fuge.....A little know fact "teeth", "slots" created areas for turbulance, and are a good way to introduce bubbles into the system......This can be eliminated with some nifty polishing, but not worth the effort. You'd want the lip of your intake wall going into the fuge smooth and polished, and technically you really only need 1 vertical wall to accomplish this and that is just to separate the 2 compartments. As far as the exit wall leaving the fuge area again "teeth" are acceptable, but you have to keep in mind "teeth" introduce micro bubbles.....
Again depends on the design, but a sump/fuge doesn't need 3 walls or baffles.....If it is designed correctly and depending on flow through the unit, it's possible to do without using baffles.......
Check out melevsreef dot com for some very good examples of properly built sump/fuges..........

 

[njbillyv]

Three points I'd like to make.
Looking at all the stuff that the sock collects I can't imagine running without one.
I get much better tumbling in the fuge section with three openings as I described, not even close. I single center opening just doesn't work as well.
Regarding the three wall exit for bubble traps. I think it's better to overdesign than underdesign, you can't really add something later if you need it. Third wall certainly doesn't hurt anything and I've had luck with it, so I say put it in at the beginning and give yourself options.
Debating / refining the design is half the fun of making one anyway.

 

[the river reef]

So below you will find a few images of my current design:


Upper: is the entire setup, I haven't decided if I will be making an overflow or purchasing one. Feedback is welcome and appreciated on that.
Middle: is the sump/refugium design. Intake/ Skimmer (not shown) > Refugium > Return Pump
Bottom: is a picture displaying the flow of the water through this system.
With such a small return section I want to glue a light diffuser above about 4" of glass to allow water to stay at the same level in the refugium and the return area. I have the glass baffles to prevent bubbles, the middle one is 1" off the bottom and they are 1" spaced apart from each other. I only have one intake on this design and haven't decided if I will have a sock filter on it or not. I also was looking at building a box in that corner and filling it with live rock rubble to reduce bubbles. The skimmer will be in front of the intake pipe in that section. I need to figure out which skimmer I will be using so I can adjust the width of that section accordingly. Anyway, this is where I am at and I look forward to some feedback!

 

[sweatervest13]

What size DT? How big is the sump going to be??
I have a three section sump and I do not have any baffles and have no issues with micro bubbles. It looks just like your last section between the fuge and the return pump section. Lots of ways to skin a cat. LOL
I am interested to see how you do it. Where and how would you mount the filter sock? I have been kicking around the idea of going to those as well.
You can always DIY filter socks and make a bunch of them. That way you could change out the socks more often and then clean them in the wash when you have a few instead of doing a full wash for 1 filter sock. This is what I would do. HTH

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBillyV http:///t/391064/filter-sock#post_3466419
Three points I'd like to make.
Looking at all the stuff that the sock collects I can't imagine running without one.
I get much better tumbling in the fuge section with three openings as I described, not even close. I single center opening just doesn't work as well.
Regarding the three wall exit for bubble traps. I think it's better to overdesign than underdesign, you can't really add something later if you need it. Third wall certainly doesn't hurt anything and I've had luck with it, so I say put it in at the beginning and give yourself options.
Debating / refining the design is half the fun of making one anyway.
Not debating the use of filter socks....they do work.....but there are other ways to accomplish what your seeing....With a well designed sump that matter you see in the filter sock can settle out in an area of the sump for easy removal....
Again there's no need to overbuild if you know what the sump can properly handle......High or low flow sump, so YES they can be built and run quite efficiently without any baffling....All depends if you really know what's going in with your flow.....I can put 50 baffles in a sump without proper design and spacing they are pointless, and won't eliminate what your trying to stop.......

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by The River Reef http:///t/391064/filter-sock#post_3466445
So below you will find a few images of my current design:


Upper: is the entire setup, I haven't decided if I will be making an overflow or purchasing one. Feedback is welcome and appreciated on that.
Middle: is the sump/refugium design. Intake/ Skimmer (not shown) > Refugium > Return Pump
Bottom: is a picture displaying the flow of the water through this system.
With such a small return section I want to glue a light diffuser above about 4" of glass to allow water to stay at the same level in the refugium and the return area. I have the glass baffles to prevent bubbles, the middle one is 1" off the bottom and they are 1" spaced apart from each other. I only have one intake on this design and haven't decided if I will have a sock filter on it or not. I also was looking at building a box in that corner and filling it with live rock rubble to reduce bubbles. The skimmer will be in front of the intake pipe in that section. I need to figure out which skimmer I will be using so I can adjust the width of that section accordingly. Anyway, this is where I am at and I look forward to some feedback!
I don't really see a need for 3 baffles.....2 would surfice.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///t/391064/filter-sock#post_3466448
What size DT? How big is the sump going to be??
I have a three section sump and I do not have any baffles and have no issues with micro bubbles. It looks just like your last section between the fuge and the return pump section. Lots of ways to skin a cat. LOL
I am interested to see how you do it. Where and how would you mount the filter sock? I have been kicking around the idea of going to those as well.
You can always DIY filter socks and make a bunch of them. That way you could change out the socks more often and then clean them in the wash when you have a few instead of doing a full wash for 1 filter sock. This is what I would do. HTH

 

[njbillyv]

Typically, the height of the wall between sections 2 and 3 determines the water level in the fuge area. With your design I'm not sure where the water level would be. I'd also definately put a sponge between sections 2 and 3, which would require a second wall. I'd also still recommend three openings into the fuge area, bottom, middle, and top.

 

[acrylic51]

Height does set the water level, but the overall water height/level in the fuge area will be determined by the final baffle height/design on the last baffle before the return chamber.....Again 3 walls aren't necessary in the skimmer area.....2 would surfice. Again proper design on the baffles, and the baffles are to minimize micro bubbles from the skimmer area, and as I pointed out which you fail to recognize NJBilly that you can put 100 baffles in that area, the key is spacing between the baffles which is what affects the micro bubbles. To close of a baffle it runs right over......Again 2 properly placed baffles, which would work just fine, and also gives you more room to work with. Not much more space, but some. As pointed out earlier sumps can be done without baffles if properly planned and laid out.....Which you fall to see as well......

 

[acrylic51]

River Reef actually looking back on your design, and in retrospect your design isn't efficient.....I'd recommend looking at melevsreef as I mentioned earlier and it will be easily explained why your design is somewhat flawed......

 

[the river reef]

I agree that I need to review my design... good idea posting and waiting patiently as I almost had the glass baffles cut this weekend. Also, I picked up a used protein skimmer this weekend, a Euro Reef - still trying to determine which exact model it is. This requires more height and space than I had planned for in my skimmer section. My original intention was to use a 10 gallon aquarium for my sump container. That is definitely too small for the skimmer I bought... has anyone used 2 separate containers for their sump designs? I am limited to my door opening to get something inside my stand. If I went to 2 separate containers I could install them separately. My skimmer has a return that can be directed into another area. I was thinking of having my refugium in that 10 gallon and having a separate container to house my skimmer and return pump, which should control my bubbles?! Any further feedback is welcome Back to the drawing board... will submit new plan ASAP.

 

[acrylic51]

Updates.....Nice score on the EuroReef.....I tried and tested skimmer you got.....

 

[the river reef]

So I tested the skimmer and everything is working concerning it...

I ordered a Magnum 500 pump and return tubing with directional inlet, etc.. Due to arrive in a few days!

I picked up a used lifereef HOB overflow today at lunch from someone in my area selling one. I also had a piece of glass cut and plan on building my sump this weekend.
I am planning on a simple approach with one piece of glass seperating the skimmer/ refugium sections... this will allow the body of water to be shared between the 2 sections and create good circulation. Also, because my skimmer is not producing any bubbles in the exhaust that I can see. I will have a straight section of 1" pipe with ball valve at the bottom to regulate flow, as shown below. What isn't shown is the overflow stated above and the return pump, placed in the same section as my skimmer. This will have flexible 3/4" return pipe with a ball valve before the return inlet also to regulate the return flow. I will be working on an automatic top off once I get this up and running...