Final check/comment on my sump design ?
- Thread starter little_d
- Start date
N
nluchau
Guest
little_d,
Looks good to me. Looks like you put alot of time into the design. My stand is almost complete, just need a door and then stain. Check it out
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/show...48#post1198848
--By the way little_d would like your replies on his sump. I am not trying to make his thread mine with this link.
Looks good to me. Looks like you put alot of time into the design. My stand is almost complete, just need a door and then stain. Check it out
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/show...48#post1198848
--By the way little_d would like your replies on his sump. I am not trying to make his thread mine with this link.
little_d
Member
Based on my reading here for the last couple of weeks, the return was split to give the return pump a break just incase it being restricted by the return hole. This way it will extended the life of the return pump.
Originally Posted by shawnd61
:notsure: why is there a y for the return? i see in the picture that the return hose is in both the ref. and on the pump.
Originally Posted by shawnd61
:notsure: why is there a y for the return? i see in the picture that the return hose is in both the ref. and on the pump.
little_d
Member
Thanks bro. Just try my best to get things right, you know it's an expensive hobby 
so I don't want to cut any corner . Just spend a bit of time after work each day and finish it up, everything coming along well.
Your stand looks great, you know those 4 pieces of 2x4 that hold up the top and bottom initially, that take up a lot of room on the inside and wouldn't fit a 36" sump, I have to spend two day taking it out to make more room. All good now, can't wait to finish up my sump and start with the tank :jumping: :cheer:
Originally Posted by nluchau
little_d,
Looks good to me. Looks like you put alot of time into the design. My stand is almost complete, just need a door and then stain. Check it out
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/show...48#post1198848
--By the way little_d would like your replies on his sump. I am not trying to make his thread mine with this link.
so I don't want to cut any corner . Just spend a bit of time after work each day and finish it up, everything coming along well. Your stand looks great, you know those 4 pieces of 2x4 that hold up the top and bottom initially, that take up a lot of room on the inside and wouldn't fit a 36" sump, I have to spend two day taking it out to make more room. All good now, can't wait to finish up my sump and start with the tank :jumping: :cheer:
Originally Posted by nluchau
little_d,
Looks good to me. Looks like you put alot of time into the design. My stand is almost complete, just need a door and then stain. Check it out
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/show...48#post1198848
--By the way little_d would like your replies on his sump. I am not trying to make his thread mine with this link.
druid1547
Member
Hi Littel d - why do you have a baffle? I am trying to put a sump and I am lost. I saw your diagram and it has made it easier to understand. I have purchased a CPR SR2 IN-SUMP PROTEIN SKIMMER, I was wondering if I could use my Fluval 404 to be the pump to the tank? Will this work? I was again wondering about the baffles. Could you explain? :needhelp:
little_d
Member
Hey Druid1547,
The first set of baffles (3) is used to take out the bubbles, you don't want any bubbles to get back to the main tank, second purpose is the seperate out the area for your refugium, you will have live sand, rock and live stock in there. The last baffle is simply a wall that ended your refugium. Here is a pix of it builded by a company I found on the web.
As far as pumping water back to the main tank you have to decide on how many time you want to overturn your tank, for example if your tank is 30 gallon and you want it to overturn 10x (recommended is 10-20 times) that would be 300 gallon. Measure how high it would be from the return pump to the end of its line. If it's 4 ft tall then you have to get a pump rated at 300gph - 4ft.
Again I am new to this, so if I left something out anyone are welcome to chime in.
Originally Posted by druid1547
Hi Littel d - why do you have a baffle? I am trying to put a sump and I am lost. I saw your diagram and it has made it easier to understand. I have purchased a CPR SR2 IN-SUMP PROTEIN SKIMMER, I was wondering if I could use my Fluval 404 to be the pump to the tank? Will this work? I was again wondering about the baffles. Could you explain? :needhelp:
The first set of baffles (3) is used to take out the bubbles, you don't want any bubbles to get back to the main tank, second purpose is the seperate out the area for your refugium, you will have live sand, rock and live stock in there. The last baffle is simply a wall that ended your refugium. Here is a pix of it builded by a company I found on the web.
As far as pumping water back to the main tank you have to decide on how many time you want to overturn your tank, for example if your tank is 30 gallon and you want it to overturn 10x (recommended is 10-20 times) that would be 300 gallon. Measure how high it would be from the return pump to the end of its line. If it's 4 ft tall then you have to get a pump rated at 300gph - 4ft.
Again I am new to this, so if I left something out anyone are welcome to chime in.
Originally Posted by druid1547
Hi Littel d - why do you have a baffle? I am trying to put a sump and I am lost. I saw your diagram and it has made it easier to understand. I have purchased a CPR SR2 IN-SUMP PROTEIN SKIMMER, I was wondering if I could use my Fluval 404 to be the pump to the tank? Will this work? I was again wondering about the baffles. Could you explain? :needhelp:
evilbob22
Member
I see two things that I don't like.
1) the return is going to the same place as the overflow... doesn't help with movement much.
2) All of your flow is going through the refugium. Say you have your 30 gallon tank with a 10 gallon refugium chamber. You want 10x flow, so you have 300 Gal/hr leaving the tank, but that comes to 30x flow in the refugium... not a refuge at all...
Otherwise I like your plan.
Try something like this:
1) the return is going to the same place as the overflow... doesn't help with movement much.
2) All of your flow is going through the refugium. Say you have your 30 gallon tank with a 10 gallon refugium chamber. You want 10x flow, so you have 300 Gal/hr leaving the tank, but that comes to 30x flow in the refugium... not a refuge at all...
Otherwise I like your plan.
Try something like this:
shoimen
Member
Here is the setup that I am planning on putting together, I am going to have PVC running from the tank overflow. This will hit a T and convert to Plastic Tubing for ease of maintenance. These lines will run to the the Sump & Refuge. I may put a valve just before the Sump tubing starts to ensure enough flow to the fuge. This should be moderate, not strong. The center chamber will be the return.
How does this look?
How does this look?
little_d
Member
Revised, take a look and tell me what u think.
Originally Posted by EvilBob22
I see two things that I don't like.
1) the return is going to the same place as the overflow... doesn't help with movement much.
2) All of your flow is going through the refugium. Say you have your 30 gallon tank with a 10 gallon refugium chamber. You want 10x flow, so you have 300 Gal/hr leaving the tank, but that comes to 30x flow in the refugium... not a refuge at all...
Otherwise I like your plan.
Try something like this:
Originally Posted by EvilBob22
I see two things that I don't like.
1) the return is going to the same place as the overflow... doesn't help with movement much.
2) All of your flow is going through the refugium. Say you have your 30 gallon tank with a 10 gallon refugium chamber. You want 10x flow, so you have 300 Gal/hr leaving the tank, but that comes to 30x flow in the refugium... not a refuge at all...
Otherwise I like your plan.
Try something like this:
evilbob22
Member
I'm headed out to a bar in a minute, but quick comments...
shoimen - I like it... try to keep the chamber for the return pump small so you can get a larger refugium. Of course you have to make sure your sump/fuge has enough room to handle overflow from the MT in the event of a power outage too...
little_d - all of the flow is still going through the refugium. It either goes drain -> refugium -> return chamber or it goes drain -> skimmer chamber -> refugium -> return chamber. You'll want most of it to miss the refugium, usually drain -> skimmer chamber -> return chamber. Come to think of it, the refugium really can't be in the center chamber... you'll need water to be able to go "around" the refugium.
Another thing you can try, I don't know the measurements of your pump/skimmer, is to have both of them on one side.....
Over simplified top down view:
+
[hr]
+
[hr]
+
|skim..|............................................|
|.........|............................................|
+
[hr]
+.............Refugium.................|
|return|............................................|
|.........|............................................|
+
[hr]
+
[hr]
+
shoimen - I like it... try to keep the chamber for the return pump small so you can get a larger refugium. Of course you have to make sure your sump/fuge has enough room to handle overflow from the MT in the event of a power outage too...
little_d - all of the flow is still going through the refugium. It either goes drain -> refugium -> return chamber or it goes drain -> skimmer chamber -> refugium -> return chamber. You'll want most of it to miss the refugium, usually drain -> skimmer chamber -> return chamber. Come to think of it, the refugium really can't be in the center chamber... you'll need water to be able to go "around" the refugium.
Another thing you can try, I don't know the measurements of your pump/skimmer, is to have both of them on one side.....
Over simplified top down view:
+
[hr]
+
[hr]
+
|skim..|............................................|
|.........|............................................|
+
[hr]
+.............Refugium.................|
|return|............................................|
|.........|............................................|
+
[hr]
+
[hr]
+
little_d
Member
EvilBob22, enjoy your weekend and thanks for the help.
I should have it right this time with your explaination plus pix from Shoimen. Here is another revised pix. My skimmer footprint is 11"x10" and my return pump is 5.5"x4.
Originally Posted by EvilBob22
I'm headed out to a bar in a minute, but quick comments...
shoimen - I like it... try to keep the chamber for the return pump small so you can get a larger refugium. Of course you have to make sure your sump/fuge has enough room to handle overflow from the MT in the event of a power outage too...
little_d - all of the flow is still going through the refugium. It either goes drain -> refugium -> return chamber or it goes drain -> skimmer chamber -> refugium -> return chamber. You'll want most of it to miss the refugium, usually drain -> skimmer chamber -> return chamber. Come to think of it, the refugium really can't be in the center chamber... you'll need water to be able to go "around" the refugium.
Another thing you can try, I don't know the measurements of your pump/skimmer, is to have both of them on one side.....
Over simplified top down view:
+
[hr]
+
[hr]
+
|skim..|............................................|
|.........|............................................|
+
[hr]
+.............Refugium.................|
|return|............................................|
|.........|............................................|
+
[hr]
+
[hr]
+
I should have it right this time with your explaination plus pix from Shoimen. Here is another revised pix. My skimmer footprint is 11"x10" and my return pump is 5.5"x4.
Originally Posted by EvilBob22
I'm headed out to a bar in a minute, but quick comments...
shoimen - I like it... try to keep the chamber for the return pump small so you can get a larger refugium. Of course you have to make sure your sump/fuge has enough room to handle overflow from the MT in the event of a power outage too...
little_d - all of the flow is still going through the refugium. It either goes drain -> refugium -> return chamber or it goes drain -> skimmer chamber -> refugium -> return chamber. You'll want most of it to miss the refugium, usually drain -> skimmer chamber -> return chamber. Come to think of it, the refugium really can't be in the center chamber... you'll need water to be able to go "around" the refugium.
Another thing you can try, I don't know the measurements of your pump/skimmer, is to have both of them on one side.....
Over simplified top down view:
+
[hr]
+
[hr]
+
|skim..|............................................|
|.........|............................................|
+
[hr]
+.............Refugium.................|
|return|............................................|
|.........|............................................|
+
[hr]
+
[hr]
+
slock
Member
Originally Posted by shiby1510
are that many baffles really needed???
In addition where are u guys buying your baffles from and what are u using to glue?? what would be good for me to glue baffles onto a glass tank?? thnx :notsure:
100% GE silicone calk. Just did it building a sump, they are solid as hell.
are that many baffles really needed???
In addition where are u guys buying your baffles from and what are u using to glue?? what would be good for me to glue baffles onto a glass tank?? thnx :notsure:
100% GE silicone calk. Just did it building a sump, they are solid as hell.
evilbob22
Member
I just noticed that your return pipe is too small... just as much flow is returning as is falling, so you need 1" pipe there too.
As far as the Mag being overpowered... maybe, probably not... It depends on how many elbows you have in your return and how big your overflow is. If your overflow is 800 gph you have no problem, but if it's 600 gph you might. Also the elbows restrict flow, so it is like you have more than a 6' head.
One more nit-picky thing: I'd do 3 baffles from the skimmer to the return, 2 are ok for the refugium to the return. There is more flow coming from the skimmer chamber, and the water is also more likely to have bubbles in it.
As far as the Mag being overpowered... maybe, probably not... It depends on how many elbows you have in your return and how big your overflow is. If your overflow is 800 gph you have no problem, but if it's 600 gph you might. Also the elbows restrict flow, so it is like you have more than a 6' head.
One more nit-picky thing: I'd do 3 baffles from the skimmer to the return, 2 are ok for the refugium to the return. There is more flow coming from the skimmer chamber, and the water is also more likely to have bubbles in it.
little_d
Member
Thanks,
I have no choice regarding the width of the return pipe because All Glass drilled that way, 1" for drain and 3/4" for return. I truely don't know their logic for this differences.
My overflow rated at 600gph so I might have a problem, but going down one step to Mag 7 (6' head - 400gph) then it will be underated. I'll have to see if I can eliminate all the elbow for the return line once I put the sump together.
That would be ez, I'll just move one baffles from the left over to the right.
Originally Posted by EvilBob22
I just noticed that your return pipe is too small... just as much flow is returning as is falling, so you need 1" pipe there too.
As far as the Mag being overpowered... maybe, probably not... It depends on how many elbows you have in your return and how big your overflow is. If your overflow is 800 gph you have no problem, but if it's 600 gph you might. Also the elbows restrict flow, so it is like you have more than a 6' head.
One more nit-picky thing: I'd do 3 baffles from the skimmer to the return, 2 are ok for the refugium to the return. There is more flow coming from the skimmer chamber, and the water is also more likely to have bubbles in it.
I have no choice regarding the width of the return pipe because All Glass drilled that way, 1" for drain and 3/4" for return. I truely don't know their logic for this differences.
My overflow rated at 600gph so I might have a problem, but going down one step to Mag 7 (6' head - 400gph) then it will be underated
. I'll have to see if I can eliminate all the elbow for the return line once I put the sump together.That would be ez, I'll just move one baffles from the left over to the right.
Originally Posted by EvilBob22
I just noticed that your return pipe is too small... just as much flow is returning as is falling, so you need 1" pipe there too.
As far as the Mag being overpowered... maybe, probably not... It depends on how many elbows you have in your return and how big your overflow is. If your overflow is 800 gph you have no problem, but if it's 600 gph you might. Also the elbows restrict flow, so it is like you have more than a 6' head.
One more nit-picky thing: I'd do 3 baffles from the skimmer to the return, 2 are ok for the refugium to the return. There is more flow coming from the skimmer chamber, and the water is also more likely to have bubbles in it.
evilbob22
Member
You'll probably still be ok with the Mag 9.5... the smaller pipe is going to restrict the flow also. It's important for the return to be less than the overflow, but the Mag 7 is probably too small.
I don't know how to calculate the actual flow, but as an example Squidd caculated a Mag 12 in Leona's thread. He calculated a 4' head with 3 90* elbows as 761 gph through 3/4" pvc, 942 gph through 1" pvc, and 1037 gph through 1 1/4" pvc. (Mag 12 is rated 1130 at 4' and 950 at 6')
I don't know how to calculate the actual flow, but as an example Squidd caculated a Mag 12 in Leona's thread. He calculated a 4' head with 3 90* elbows as 761 gph through 3/4" pvc, 942 gph through 1" pvc, and 1037 gph through 1 1/4" pvc. (Mag 12 is rated 1130 at 4' and 950 at 6')