First Ich experience, Is this what I should do

viper222

viper222

Member
I have a tank, 1 month going. All has been OK, I added snails, crabs, a Serpant Star, 2 clowns and 5 chromis over that month, obviously not at the same time. I have a 60ga and my levels have been fine, recently my Nitrates have gone up to 10. 4 days ago I added a yellow tang and a powder blue tank, both very small fellas. Last night 72 hours in the tank, all was well, no signs of ICH (Yes I know QT, I did not, I am stupid stupid stupid
, Anyway, those 3 days the Yellow Tank has been fairly aggressive to the powder blue tang, he isn't really mean, but he follows him around and "lunges" toward him every now and then, he cuts him off, and I have witnessed them tail fighting for one or two lunges. So, this morning I left before my lights came on so I couldn't see them. I got home tonight 96 hours in tank now, and blue has about 12 -16 small bubbles, some on the fins, some on the face, so looking at previous pictures it believe this to be ick. FYI, this whole time, even up until now he has been swimming around like one of the boys, acting normal, and eating well. He isn't shy about catching whatever the chromis miss at the top of the tank.
I Made up a HT out of a 10 gallon water change and took 7 gallons of what came out of my tank, and 3 gallons of freshly mixed (24 hour wait time) SW and put it in a new 10 gallon tank (bought it years ago and never used it) I have a Whisper 10-20 so I removed the charcoal filter and left the spongy thing. I have it circulating with nothing but a PVC pipe he can fit in, and a heater. I had the joy of catching him out of my DT and putting him in the HT.
He is now in the HT acting weird, I guess from the whole catch release process. He just sits still, once he swam into the PVC pipe, and once, when I checked the Salinity and stuff, he took off like Moody's Goose thinking I was coming after him again.
So, that is ONE concern.
Second Concern- Am I doing this right so far, remove him from the rest and to a HT,
Then am I right in SLOWLY lowering the salinity to 1.009 over a 48 hour period using a Refractometer to be sure?
Then after the ich seems to be gone, wait 3 weeks. Then over the course of another week, raise the salinity up to 1.023 or whatever I usually run my DT at.
LAST concern- Since this little guy had ich and was in my DT does that mean that the rest of my guys will get it? or if they are healthy and not stressed, they might not get it? Even though I got him out less than 24 hours after it appeared (don't know since he didn't show signs when I went to bed)
In my DT I have crabs, snails, a serpant star, and LR and LS, so best I recall from reading, Hypo IS NOT an option in the DT, right?
Thank you sooooooooo much for the help.
 
rbaldino

rbaldino

Active Member
The best thing for you to do is put all your fish in a hospital tank and treat for ich, and leave you display tank fishless for 4-6 weeks. That's the only way you're going to get rid of the problem.
Now I'm going to get out of here before the tang police show up.
 
viper222

viper222

Member
Yes, this is the same tank. (first and only tank right now) Some people thought it might possibly be a lymph, I watched it and one went away after 2 days, the other after 2 more days so I didn't worry about it at all. These spots look more bubble like then the other ones though and if I looked at them side by side I would think they were different issues, but not saying it wasn't ich, I did nothing to treat at that time though.
As for removing all the fish, I guess I need to go buy a bigger HT tank, what I have would not be very happy if I put them all in a 10 gallon. 5 chromis, 2 tank raised clowns, 1 Yellow and the Powder Blue.
1-So, if I did get a bigger HT tank, removed all the fish, did a 4 week or longer depending on how it went hypo, would that mean that all the ich from the main tank and then the fish would be gone, and if I ALWAYS did a QT using hypo then I would never have to worry about it again, since from what I read it can't live without a host?
2-If my other fish didn't get the ich symptoms, could they still have ich, just not showing up?
3-If I move them all together in a tank, assuming the other guys didn't get the parasite, are I not asking for them to get it?
FINALLY-- Tank police, I would like to plead the 5th, but I know I did a NO NO. I guess I thought it would never happen to me, now that I see it, I WILL NEVER EVER do this again, QT ALWAYS. Please go easy on me
, I already see the light, I do love my fish, they are all so cute and nice, I am just so worried for them now.
 
razor vampire

razor vampire

Member
1. Yes the white bubbles are ich eggs. The ich lives inside the fish. So with no fish the (baby ich) can't survive in the water without a host. So it will die. Wait at least 3 weeks
2. The white spots are the egg not the ich. The ich lives inside the fish. So yes they could have ich because well it's in the fish body.
3. I don't fully understand your question
Don't worry we all make mistakes.
 
B

bellaroxio

Guest
Originally Posted by viper222
Yes, this is the same tank. (first and only tank right now) Some people thought it might possibly be a lymph, I watched it and one went away after 2 days, the other after 2 more days so I didn't worry about it at all. These spots look more bubble like then the other ones though and if I looked at them side by side I would think they were different issues, but not saying it wasn't ich, I did nothing to treat at that time though.
As for removing all the fish, I guess I need to go buy a bigger HT tank, what I have would not be very happy if I put them all in a 10 gallon. 5 chromis, 2 tank raised clowns, 1 Yellow and the Powder Blue.
1-So, if I did get a bigger HT tank, removed all the fish, did a 4 week or longer depending on how it went hypo, would that mean that all the ich from the main tank and then the fish would be gone, and if I ALWAYS did a QT using hypo then I would never have to worry about it again, since from what I read it can't live without a host?
2-If my other fish didn't get the ich symptoms, could they still have ich, just not showing up?
3-If I move them all together in a tank, assuming the other guys didn't get the parasite, are I not asking for them to get it?
FINALLY-- Tank police, I would like to plead the 5th, but I know I did a NO NO. I guess I thought it would never happen to me, now that I see it, I WILL NEVER EVER do this again, QT ALWAYS. Please go easy on me
, I already see the light, I do love my fish, they are all so cute and nice, I am just so worried for them now.

3) it does not matter. As soon as you reduced the SG to 1.009, ich cannot survive.
 
renogaw

renogaw

Active Member
keep an eye on your pH and ammonia. they are the hardest thing to control (besides the salt levels). yes, you'll have to treat all your fish. If you want, take out all your rocks, corals and inverts and put them in your HT, then hypo your display tank. that way you have a bigger tank to deal with.
 
viper222

viper222

Member
bellaroxio- Thank you for answer for 3
Razor Vampire- Thank you for answer 1 and 2
Basically then, after doing hypo on all the fish, I should NEVER see ich again unless I introduce it with additional fish right? since hypo kills it, if every new fish goes through hypo then I don't have to cry again......
renogaw- Thanks, on your answer thought.... If I remove my LR, my inverts, and just leave my fish and LS, then I will probably loose my good bacteria in the LS right? What about all the little copepods I see will they die in Hypo?
This is definantly the easier thing to do I would HATE to have to catch that yellow tang from the DT. I would just hate to loose my benificial bacteria, I seem to have read that you lose some, then I read on Beths FAQ that don't worry, you won't lose it? Im so confused
 
renogaw

renogaw

Active Member
most of your pods will be on your rock. the bacteria in the sand is a different question. Bacteria itself is not going to die from low salt levels, because it is not an invert affected by low salt levels. I'm not quite sure why with a DSB you have to worry about it, but if you have 4-6" sand bed you're supposed to remove it.
if you do this, i would ask beth or 1journeyman as to why on the sand, AND if you should leave the rock that is under your sand so you can reaquascape.
beth generally looks more in the disease forum so you may want to make a post there. (also, give her a link here to here)
 
lesleybird

lesleybird

Active Member
I think the best thing you could do is remove all of your live rock and inverts to the 10 gallon or maybe even a larger rubbermaid tub with a power head. You will need to feed the crabs lightly with some sinking fish food pellets. Keep the live rock out of the tank for 5 to 6 weeks to be sure the ich is dead. Do hypo on the main display. You may need to purchase or order a refractometer stat to do the hypo correctly. Watch the water quality in the display and add a lot of Cycle brand bacteria in a bottle. Keep some amonia detoxifier like Aquamel handy to use in the tank with the tangs. Do frequent partial water changes with the same salinity. Use a good buffer as when one does hypo with fresh dechlorinated water the ph tends to go down. Get several large PVC pipes for the tangs in the display to hide out in.... one for each tang. Don't forget to do top offs on the live rock tank. The creatures in the sand will die but most likely there will be enough on the live rock to start an new population of pods etc. Good luck. Lesley
 
viper222

viper222

Member
I have 60lbs of sand, so mayb 2.5 inches.
IF this keeps the bacteria, then if I was to move it around to put my rocks back in so they are on the bottom of the tank, won't this maybe cause a cycle or HIGH nitrate spike due to disturbing the sand?
I just want to know what I am going to need to do, I will do what I have to do, this sounds like the best idea so far.
Do I need to get a light for the LR in the rubbermaid?
I have the 10gallon, but I have too much LR to fit in that, so I was thinking, a rubbermaid for the LR, one or two pieces in the 10gallon (sand??) and then put my 15 margarita snails, 15 or so crabs, 2 olive snails, and serpant star fish in that? Do I need to get a good light for that tank, or just the one that came with it, was a freshwater setup kit?
I am ordering a refractometer with ATC today next day air.
 
renogaw

renogaw

Active Member
there's two types of bacteria in sand. aerobic and anaerobic. since you don't have a deep sand bed, you shouldn't have anaerobic. the aerobic shouldn't die off because it is constantly getting fish poop to eat. but, that is the issue with keeping a "in between" sand bed. it should really only be about 1" deep, or a DSB. if you're concerned, take most of the sand out.
keeping your baserock in the tank may be a good idea so you don't disturbe it any more when you reaquascape, but like i said i don't know if its a good idea or not.
as for the rocks and inverts: if there's any photosynthetic hitchikers (algaes, corals, etc) you can put a light over it, or even in the quarantine tank and the stock light should be fine (you could always get one of those fake reef lights). if not, then a tote, a heater, and a pump is all you'll need. just try to keep it wet when moving it so you don't kill off any sponges. put the other inverts in the QT as long as you havent used copper.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Get a larger holding tub and remove the fish.
Hypo will kill all of the beneficial creatures living in your live sand. In essence it will no longer be "live" after hypo. It will have bacteria, but no pods, worms, etc.
Further, by removing the fish you can better examine them for signs of disease. If it ends up you have a disease that needs to be treated you can treat them outside the aquarium in your holding tub. Never treat your display aquarium.
One thing you can do to help the situation is to return both Tangs. Neither is suited for your aquarium. Don't get into the habit of buying small and waiting for them to grow too big for your tank. Take them back now and get more suitable pets. Tangs are beautiful fish, but there are a hundred different fish that will be just as entertaining and attractive.
 
viper222

viper222

Member
1journeyman- thank you for your input, I was leaning towards not treating the DT.
As for the tangs. These two were on my list from the start of fish I wished to have. I am saving to get a 125 so in way less than 1 year I will be upgrading tanks anyway. See, I got a 60, should've gone bigger from the get go, just never thought I would need more, want more, so addicting. ANyway, so when I found these small guys I figured I would have them in a larger tank in plenty of time. But I do see what you mean of "don't get small and wait to grow"
 
rbaldino

rbaldino

Active Member
Originally Posted by viper222
1journeyman- thank you for your input, I was leaning towards not treating the DT.
As for the tangs. These two were on my list from the start of fish I wished to have. I am saving to get a 125 so in way less than 1 year I will be upgrading tanks anyway. See, I got a 60, should've gone bigger from the get go, just never thought I would need more, want more, so addicting. ANyway, so when I found these small guys I figured I would have them in a larger tank in plenty of time. But I do see what you mean of "don't get small and wait to grow"
You still shouldn't count on getting a bigger tank. Anything could happen in the interim.
 
B

bellaroxio

Guest
no light needed for the QT.
BTW, I had 3 med tangs in my 10-gal QT. It caused an uproar on this forum. No problem!
One died due to human error - my maid raised the SG too fast on the 5th week.
The other 2 are "as good as it gets!"
 
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