First Saltwater Tank- 30 Gallons

[elsewhere]

Hello everyone! I'm joining saltwater sites here and there to get as much advice and information as possible! I'm hoping to start up a SW tank in my currently freshwater 30 gallon tank. I've been reading up on starting them off, and this is some advice I have gotten so far:

-Take your time
-It can be months before fish are added
-Don't overstock
-QT all fish for at least 6 weeks
-Only add one fish every 6 weeks after the initial fish

Is all of that information viable?

I also have an idea of species I would like in a tank:

-Ocellaris Clownfish*
-Citrinis Clown Goby*
-Red Spotted Goby
-Helfrichi Firefish
-Tanaka's Pygmy Wrasse
-Starfish*

(Things with "*" beside them are the ones I would really love to have)

I understand that there's no way all or even most of those fish can go in such a small tank, but I was curious as to what could mix with what. I was also thinking of coral and liverock in the tank, but I have no clue how any of that works.

This is my big list of questions:
-Can Clownfish be in pairs?
-Do Clownfish need to be in pairs?
-What plants can go underwater?
-Do you suggest coral or liverock in my tank, or is that too advanced?
-Would shrimp be okay in a tank with those species? What yes and what no?
-I have an Aqueon Quiet Flow 30, an Aquaclear 20, and a Marina s15 for filters- what can go in that tank?
-Do you suggest an air stone?
-What is a good substrate?
-How much salt do I need to initially add to the tank?
-Do I need to have a constant QT running? Can I set it up, QT for the months I need, then tear it down and go back to freshwater? Or is the constantly running my best choice?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this! I'm sure I'll have tons more questions, but these are the ones for now!

 

[zoidberg01]

Clown fish can be paired and if you want them to addopt a anemone I would recommend a bubble tip or a carpet anemone and you can have a shrimp but don't get a coral banded shrimp they will grow and eat your fish , its good to start with soft corals but the best gear for maintaining them is a protein skimmer and a refuge tank or a sump and a wave maker.for plants I recommend mermiads fan or halimeda also make sure that the ph levels and other bacteria are ok corals can be delicate for that and its best to introduce fish with low salt levels but my 55 g is always on a good 1.24 . Live rock and live sand will definitely do a really great job

 

[zoidberg01]

Clown fish can be paired and if you want them to addopt a anemone I would recommend a bubble tip qor a carpet anemone and you can have a shrimp but don't get a coral banded shrimp they will grow and eat your fish , its good to start with soft corals but the best gear for maintaining them is a protein skimmer and a refuge tank or a sump and a wave maker.for plants I recommend mermids fa

 

[zoidberg01]

Also if you buy a shrimp and a goby like a watchman they will pair

 

[geridoc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsewhere http:///t/396816/first-saltwater-tank-30-gallons#post_3535496
Hello everyone! I'm joining saltwater sites here and there to get as much advice and information as possible! I'm hoping to start up a SW tank in my currently freshwater 30 gallon tank. I've been reading up on starting them off, and this is some advice I have gotten so far:

-Take your time
-It can be months before fish are added Not necessarily. You need to establish a viable bacterial colony in the tank (called "cycling"), which can take from zero days to several weeks, depending on the cycling method you use.
-Don't overstock
-QT all fish for at least 6 weeks
-Only add one fish every 6 weeks after the initial fish
The rest of the advice above is fine, especially the first item. Nothing good happens fast in saltwater fishkeeping.

Is all of that information viable?

I also have an idea of species I would like in a tank:

-Ocellaris Clownfish*
-Citrinis Clown Goby*
-Red Spotted Goby
-Helfrichi Firefish
-Tanaka's Pygmy Wrasse
-Starfish*

(Things with "*" beside them are the ones I would really love to have)

I understand that there's no way all or even most of those fish can go in such a small tank, but I was curious as to what could mix with what. I was also thinking of coral and liverock in the tank, but I have no clue how any of that works. Liverock is pretty high on the list of must haves - it will provide the initial seeding of bacteria mentioned above. Since LR is expensive, you can add just some of it, and do the rest of your aquascape with base (non-live) rock, and it will become live over time. Based on your questions, which are fine and the right ones to ask, I don't think you are ready for corals yet. They require another level of expertise and experience, not to mention a much larger investment. Wait, learn, then start you reef after you become adept at tank maintenance.

This is my big list of questions:
-Can Clownfish be in pairs? Yes, but in view of your other possible additions (which are not aggressive), I would add the clownfish last.
-Do Clownfish need to be in pairs? No, a single clownfish will do fine.
-What plants can go underwater? What looks like plants in marine tanks aren't really members of the plant kingdom, but are forms of algae known as macroalgae. Having them in either a sump, or in a small separate section of your display can contribute considerably to the quality of your water. You can find several types on this site, or just google "macroalgae" to find other types and sources. Be sure to read about the life cycles of the varieties that interest you - some of the macros can be a problem.
-Do you suggest coral or liverock in my tank, or is that too advanced? Coral: Too advanced at this point. Liverock: essential (priceless).
-Would shrimp be okay in a tank with those species? What yes and what no? A shrimp would not have any problem with the species you are planning.
-I have an Aqueon Quiet Flow 30, an Aquaclear 20, and a Marina s15 for filters- what can go in that tank? I don't know these units, so I won't guess.
-Do you suggest an air stone? I suggest you do not use an airstone. Bubbles can be a problem in marine tanks beacuse they are too stable, and can bother the fish. Use a powerhead or two to create currents and you will have plenty of aeration.
-What is a good substrate? Choose either no substrate or ocean sand. Avoid crushed coral at all costs. It is old school (as am I, but I have learned my lesson).
-How much salt do I need to initially add to the tank? You need a hydrometer or a refractometer to determine the salt content of the water.
-Do I need to have a constant QT running? Can I set it up, QT for the months I need, then tear it down and go back to freshwater? Or is the constantly running my best choice? I find that keeping one running works best for me, but then I'm stocking a 220, a 40 and a 29 so there is usually something new most of the time. However, you can make an instant QT by keeping filter material in the sump of your display. This will keep it loaded with bacteria, so when you need the QT just add water and the filter material and it is ready for fish.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this! I'm sure I'll have tons more questions, but these are the ones for now! Keep the questions coming. It is much cheaper and easier on the psyche to make your mistakes here in the virtual world than in your tank.

 

[elsewhere]

Thank you for the replies! Geri, the tank that will be turned into saltwater is already cycled- will I have to recycle the tank when it's changed over?

Good to know that I should take corals off of the list! I was wary of them when in the reef store in my town, and the man said they were moderately difficult to care for, so I wasn't really aiming for them the first time around. After a couple of years with this tank I might add some in, or maybe I just never will- they seem extremely complicated!

Here's a whole new list of questions!
-Which is better, buying used or new for anything in the aquarium?
-On my previous species list, what would be a good stocking plan?
-How much does LR usually cost?
-What exactly are pumps and sumps? I've never been too clear on those...
-The filters I mentioned are HOB- if I have a powerhead, do I need a filter? Are HOB filters good in saltwater tanks?
-What are the benefits of ocean sand and bare bottom?
-How fast does LR grow?
-What kind of lighting will be necessary in this tank?
-What is baserock and how fast would it be before it comes to life?

Zoidberg, do you suggest an anemone for me even if I'm a beginner? What are the care levels?

Thanks again for dealing with my million questions. I've been researching like nuts, and have actually gotten quite a few answered, so these are what's left over!

 

[geridoc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsewhere http:///t/396816/first-saltwater-tank-30-gallons#post_3535508
Thank you for the replies! Geri, the tank that will be turned into saltwater is already cycled- will I have to recycle the tank when it's changed over? Absolutely! Saltwater bacterial species are very different from those in freshwater.

Good to know that I should take corals off of the list! I was wary of them when in the reef store in my town, and the man said they were moderately difficult to care for, so I wasn't really aiming for them the first time around. After a couple of years with this tank I might add some in, or maybe I just never will- they seem extremely complicated! They aren't, really, but you need to understand water first, then it gets easier.

Here's a whole new list of questions!
-Which is better, buying used or new for anything in the aquarium? Used can be fine for much of the equipment. I would never buy used heaters, for example since they tend to fail over time.
-On my previous species list, what would be a good stocking plan? I would start with the citrinis clown goby - peaceful, outgoing and inexpensive (not a small consideration for a beginner). Tanaka's wrasse is gorgeous, when you see it. They tend to be secretive, but the goby could attract it out of the rockwork after it becomes comfortable in the tank. The Helfrichi firefish is spectacular, but expensive. If you decide to get one be sure that you have your tank completely covered - these guys love to carpet surf. In marine tanks it is best not to use a glass cover on the tank. Search for "egg crate" on this to see how you should prevent extra-tank exploration. The clownfish is a member of the damsel family, they tend to be aggressive. Add it last, after all of the other fish have acclimated and established their territories. If there is trouble, move your rockwork around so that nobody has a known territory and you should be OK, especially if you get a small specimen to start.
-How much does LR usually cost? In New York the lfs' generally get between $8-10 per pound. For a 30 gallon tank you would need about 30 lb, depending on the density of the rock. You want the maximum number of small pores in the rock. That adds up to $300 for rock! A better plan is to get one or two pieces of cured lr locally and 20-25 lb of base (not live), set it up and then cycle the tank.
-What exactly are pumps and sumps? I've never been too clear on those...A sump is a second tank that serves several purposes: it adds water volume to the system, which increases stability; it serves as an out-of-the-way place to put much of your equipment (heaters, etc), macroalgae, etc. Usually, the sump is placed below the display and fed from an overflow on the main tank. A return pump moves the water back up to the display. There are many diy designs, or you can buy a pre-made sump.
-The filters I mentioned are HOB- if I have a powerhead, do I need a filter? Are HOB filters good in saltwater tanks? An HOB is fine so long as you are faithful about replacing the filter media frequently and regularly.
-What are the benefits of ocean sand and bare bottom? Now you're asking a tough question that is sure to stir controversy. Sand produces a natural appearing bottom to the system, and it can serve as a good anaerobic site for reducing nitrates somewhat. It does trap dirt and detritus. A bare bottom system is easier to keep clean. IMHO, it is a matter of what you like.
-How fast does LR grow? LR doesn't grow, it isn't live. We call it that because it is filled with all kinds of life when you get it, much of it semi-or fully microscopic. The rock adds biological diversity to the tank, and gives you something to look at at 3 am when you can't sleep (try it - use a red light and you will see stuff in the tank in the middle of the night that will cost you many hours of sleep).
-What kind of lighting will be necessary in this tank? Since you are doing a FOWLR (Fish Only with Live Rock), lighting isn't critical. Fluorescent lights will be perfectly adequate. The fish don't care.
-What is baserock and how fast would it be before it comes to life? Baserock is oceanic rock that has been dried, so there is no life in it. Cycling the tank with baserock in it will produce live rock of a sort, but it may take some time for the diversity coming from the original live rock to "infect" the baserock with copepoods, sponges, bristle worms, and yes, maybe aptasia, as well as lots of other small life forms.

Zoidberg, do you suggest an anemone for me even if I'm a beginner? What are the care levels? Impossible. Anemones are very sensitive to water quality, and it will be some time before you understand enough about this very complicated topic to maintain these difficult animals. You will also have to improve your lighting to about $750-1000 since anemones are photosynthetic.

Thanks again for dealing with my million questions. I've been researching like nuts, and have actually gotten quite a few answered, so these are what's left over! No problem. You will find the folks here to be knowledgeable, and more importantly to you, gentle with beginners to our hobby.

 

[zoidberg01]

If you want the clowns to pair up with them get a carpet or a bubble tip but I have a condy anemone they are hardy but the clowns wont pair and they can be aggressive so make sure hes in a good spot

 

[zoidberg01]

I once paired a pink spot watchman goby with a pistol shrimp

 

[elsewhere]

Holy cow, lets cross anemones off the list! And I think I can handle $300 worth of LR- while it will suck, I spent more on the freshwater tank in the beginning and probably double that since. Yeah, I've read that the Wrasse will rarely be seen. I'm starting to not want Clownfish, even though I love them, mainly because of what I've read... I'll probably just add them a while after, to be sure.

And what other than more questions?
-When I first get the fish, is it best to get the least aggressive first, QT it, add it to the tank, then go up the list from least to most aggressive?
-What does a powerhead need to work? Is it just plug in and go, or is there a hookup system to it?
-Can I put LR in even when cycling? Is it important to the cycle?
-Does my QT need to be set up as long as my main tank? I mean, can I set up a QT on the day I buy fish? Or does it need to be as ready as my main tank?
-For you, on a weekly basis, what is the time you take in your tank?
-Do I need to vacuum the sand with a siphon or anything like that, or will a filter take care of it?

Thanks again, guys- I'm very glad that I found this site!

 

[zoidberg01]

The wrasse thing is a lie ive had a lot of wrasses and all they do is graze and swim

 

[elsewhere]

I would really like to thank you guys for all of your responses and help, but it's looking like this won't happen. My floor can't support the added weight of the rocks and the amount of sand I would want to use, and since the furnace AND the hydro box are right below my room, my parents aren't wanting me to risk it at all. It really sucks, a lot, but the only other option is moving it to the concrete floored basement, which is about 2 and a half levels below my room. And that is not happening either. My dad may come up with a solution to the support thing, but it seems like right now it won't happen. Instead, we may get a much larger tank downstairs, which could be saltwater, but nothing will be decided for a while.

Thank you all again so much! I've loved researching this!

 

[geridoc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsewhere http:///t/396816/first-saltwater-tank-30-gallons#post_3535537
I would really like to thank you guys for all of your responses and help, but it's looking like this won't happen. My floor can't support the added weight of the rocks and the amount of sand I would want to use, and since the furnace AND the hydro box are right below my room, my parents aren't wanting me to risk it at all. It really sucks, a lot, but the only other option is moving it to the concrete floored basement, which is about 2 and a half levels below my room. And that is not happening either. My dad may come up with a solution to the support thing, but it seems like right now it won't happen. Instead, we may get a much larger tank downstairs, which could be saltwater, but nothing will be decided for a while.

Thank you all again so much! I've loved researching this!
if your house was built in the 20th century to the codes in any state, then a 30 gallon tank is no threat. When i installed my 110 I put angle irons across the floor beams with no problem.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I put 330 gallons of water across the floor boards of a house built in 1945 that was built off the ground. I did brace it a bit, but I had no issues.

 

[elsewhere]

Try telling that to my dad >.< I don't blame him for being worried about it, though- we seem to blow a lot of things up in this family...

I'm thinking of keeping it freshwater, and my 16th birthday just happens to be coming up- before I got into the idea of saltwater, my parents and I had discussed a large (55+) gallon tank in the basement, and I think that it would be better to wait out a tank that size in the spring. I would have much more tank room to deal with, and could quite a few more fish. Nothing is decided, and I'll give another crack at my dad with the 30 gallon, but I'll also ask about the bigger tank, because I would love to have that be a saltwater instead of the 30 gallon.

 

[silverado61]

I think there should only be about 60lbs difference, maybe even less, between a 30 gallon freshwater and a 30 gallon saltwater tank. Not much difference in the grand scheme of things. When you put in rocks and sand, your displacing the same volume in water so the overall weight won't change much if at all. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

Just in case, remind your Dad that everyone here is offering advice. Not services. Nobody here is trying to sell you anything (like a car salesman). Just help. He might be thinking everyone here is pushing for this trying to sell you something. They're actually trying to talk you out of buying a few things. That's my .02

 

[stephsup]

Hi everyone! I just joined the saltwater sites to get as much advice and information as possible! I started my 30 gallon SW tank about two months ago. I've been reading up but I'm not quite sure where to go from here.
I have 3 fish one coral and two feather dusters ... Do far they're okay... My test levels are normal. I made the mistake of putting two arrow crab, which I had to remove... But this morning one of my feather dusters released some kind of some at least 4 times in a row... I'm lost!

 

[elsewhere]

Hello there! Just an update- we're going with a bigger saltwater downstairs! Yay! It won't happen until spring, and now there will be more options for fish! We might just turn the 30g into a QT, because the tank could be up to 90 gallons!

 

[geridoc]

Hello there! Just an update- we're going with a bigger saltwater downstairs! Yay! It won't happen until spring, and now there will be more options for fish! We might just turn the 30g into a QT, because the tank could be up to 90 gallons!
A 30 would make a great DIY sump. There are simple plans all over the net, and you can get more guidance in the DIY forum on this site. You will really enjoy a 90 gallon system if it is properly planned. So keep asking questions and making plans.

 

[geridoc]

Hi everyone! I just joined the saltwater sites to get as much advice and information as possible! I started my 30 gallon SW tank about two months ago. I've been reading up but I'm not quite sure where to go from here.
I have 3 fish one coral and two feather dusters ... Do far they're okay... My test levels are normal. I made the mistake of putting two arrow crab, which I had to remove... But this morning one of my feather dusters released some kind of some at least 4 times in a row... I'm lost! we need a better description than " some kind of some". Also, always provide specific values for water params, "normal" just doesn't provide sufficient info.