First Seahorse Aquarium

[bahamit147]

I'm going to start by saying that I really miss my old LFS, the one from back in Lethbridge AB. A few years ago had talked a lot with a few of the employees there and they offered me tons of great information however being in college, money and space were tight. Now that a few years have past and I can actually afford to invest in seahorses with my wife I no longer remember all the great information I was told. Now I live in Red Deer and the only good stores that have products such as I'm looking for are in Calgary or Edmonton. I don't feel like driving for an hour and a half (or more depending on traffic) just to ask a few questions and as good as google is, I'd rather ask some people with experience personally. So now I start with my set of questions.
I'm looking to purchase a new 45 gallon aquarium that is 36" across, 13" deep, and 24" high. I know that seahorses need a taller aquarium with about 3 times their height of swimming height. I was thinking that a medium seahorse such as Hippocampus Barbouri, (zebra nosed seahorse) which if my research is correct then they grow about 6" tall meaning they need a swimming height of at least 18" and I want a sand substrate about 2" deep meaning they'd have an extra 4 inches on top of the 3 times depth. Perhaps even live sand.
I've read that micro bubbles are a problem for them so a protein skimmer it out of the question so I was thinking one of two things. Either two smaller hang on back filters to make sure there is not too strong of flow (something along the lines of two 30 gallon filters). Either that or run my own pcv piping and fab up a sump style filtration system. I'm not sure which would be better so that is another question.
I've been looking at live rocks and coral, I also know that there are several problems with live rock such as hydroids, that being said, what are the best ways to prevent this, as soon as I manage to sell my last freshwater aquarium I'll be trying to start my set up, its not a problem waiting a few months to add ponies as I do work 15 days out of town and only home for 6 so its not hard to wait (the time I'm gone the wife will be looking after the tank). I've looked at a compatibilty list and was thinking about sun coral (tubastrea), sea stalk (briareum abestinum), red sea fan (gorgonian sp), or possibly a soft coral from this list (http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/tankmates/softcoral.shtml) though more interested in the second and third one as places for hitching.
Also heating/cooling requirements, I know in the winter my other heaters have run almost all the time as the house seems to chill at night and I know that H. Barbouri need between 72 and 77 degrees, so most likely will try to set the heater at 75 degrees, however in the summer our house gets very hot and would most likely get above 80 degrees. What are the best methods of cooling a tank? I’ve read about having a fan blowing on the tank, however if I’m fabricating a sump, would having the water that flows back into the tank come from above in fine pours or attempt to make it mist back into the water.
Another thing I’ve read about is Power Heads, how nessecary are they, I’ve read that some can catch seahorse tails. If I run a sump are they needed as will the sump not create enough flow. I’ve read about using snails as a clean up crew, however I’d be a little more interested in shrimp such as Camel Shrimp (rhychocinetes uritai) or Peppermint Shrimp (lysmata wurdemanni) as they are listed as very low risk. Maybe a sea star (just DEFINITELY NOT Protoreaster linckii).
Actually I can’t think of anything else to ask right now and as I know I’ve written a lot of extra information I’ll summarise my questions here.
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Is that aquarium adequate for only one pair of medium (up to 6 inches) seahorses or could it fit two pair?
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Is 2 inches of dry or live sand enough?
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Would two 30 gallon hang on back filters be sufficient or should I fab up a sump (any extra info on best methods for most efficiency would be appreciated)
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Does anyone have recommendations for or against any of the live coral I mentioned?
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Does anyone have any recommendations for live plants?
What are the best methods to cool an aquarium?
How nessecary are power heads?
Best clean up crews?
Would it be best to add the clean up crew before I add seahorses (after tank has cycled) or after seahorses are established (a month or two after seahorses added).
[/list type=decimal]

 

[saxman]

SH aren't ponies, and ponies aren't SH...might as well start off correctly.
First and foremost, the best temp for tropical SH is </= +74*F. SH are very susceptible to bacterial infections in captive systems, and the bacterial count really goes thru the roof starting at +75*F. Every spring, there's a huge influx of bacterial infections in the SH ER over on "the org" (I've been a mod there for several years, so I've seen this each year).
Your best bet is a chiller, but if you run a sump, you can blow a fan over the water surface to increase evaporative cooling, which will drop the tank a few degrees. Running cooler lighting will help too, as will choosing a cool-running pump (lower power consumption rating...fewer Watts, which is also cheaper in terms of electricity bills). SH aren't picky about lighting, so as long as you can see them, and they can see to eat, you're golden.
As far as tank height goes, 24" minus a couple of inches for substrate (I like #1 or #3 grade aragonite) is fine. Where the "3x height" thing comes into play is to allow (usually inexperienced pairs) to complete their coital spins for successful egg transfer. However, I've had SH breed in 10 gal QT's, so they'll find a way if they're so inclined.
I can't recommend the use of live macro in a SH setup highly enuff...it's a pod haven, and the SH will spend time hunting in it as well as hitching to it. It also aids in nutrient export when you prune it.
I'm not crazy about PH's in my tanks, and certainly not in a SH tank. If you do use them, be sure to cover the intake, and make sure if you use a "propeller" type such as Korallia, that you have a guard on the output side as well (I've seen SH with amputated tails from trying to hitch to them). If you set up your flow so you have few dead spots and about 10x or more flow you should be fine...just be sure you aren't blowing the SH all over the place.
The microbubble thing is kinda "old school" thinking when it comes to SH, but if you run a sump, you can add the skimmer there. If you run live macro, or keep up on your water changes, you do away with a skimmer. If you have a male that displays a lot, it could conceivably develop PE from bubbles in the tankwater when it flushes its pouch, but that's about it.
In that tank, you could keep two pairs of larger species SH comfortably. Barbs can be a bit more touchy than erectus, reidi, or kuda, but I like them a lot. One thing about barbs is they tend to be very slow, methodical feeders, and will often inspect each food item seemingly forever before snicking it up. They also grow much more slowly if you're considering breeding them.
The corals are OK, but if you get any gorgs, be sure they're not NPS as they will require feeding. Also, realize that SH might stress them from repeatedly hitching to them in the same spot. What you don't want is anything with stinging tentacles.
CUC can be assorted snails, true peppermint shrimp (don't get camel shrimp as they're predatory), and even scarlet reef hermits if you feel the urge for crabs. However, even tho scarlets are the most docile, I've seen them grab onto the tails of a resting SH. I'd add the CUC before the SH, this is especially true of the shrimp, as sometimes a SH will snick them apart before they can hide.
If you go with a sea star, don't get any of the knobby stars (CC or red general/redknobby) as they're predatory and won't think twice before snacking on a sleeping SH. I'd stick with micro brittles.
Since you're in Canada, it might be good for you to hook up with rayjay on SH.org as he has a good handle on where to obtain good CB stock up there.
HTH, and sorry for the long post...

 

[bahamit147]

Well you learn something new every day lol.
I’ll definitely try to keep the water at a stable 74 degrees, and as to the influx of bacteria during spring time, how would you recommend preventing that? What are some recommended chillers? I intend to run fluorescent lighting, is there another type that would be good for plant/coral growth and be cooler? I don’t intend to breed the seahorses so I guess height isn’t the biggest concern, if it happens it happens, I just know I’ll feel bad knowing that babies most likely won’t be able to survive.
By live macro are you referring to live rock? Sorry, I’m not right up to snuff with some of the terms lol.
I may or may not use power heads, I may just run two hang on back filters, one on each side for flow, maybe one power head to circulate lightly on the bottom, would this setup be fine? If not I may build a sump eventually should there be any imperfections in water quality after cycling. If I do have live rock, sand and possibly coral I shouldn’t need a skimmer, however this brings up one more question, with live rock and sand, how many pounds of each would I need.
I’ll definitely have to do more research about a few different types of coral before I buy. Are there any that are known to do well with seahorses, as in that aren’t harmed by the repeated hitching? I had read that the knobby starts are predatory and defiantly don’t want that, I looked up micro brittles and it says that they mate readily, and like with freshwater, I’d had problems with snails breeding and climbing into my filters, after a few hundred (with pests) in a few days a filter gets clogged. Even happened while I was breeding assassin snails, I clean out about ten of them every 3 weeks now. Would this happen if I had a hang on back filter with micro brittles? If not I’ll consider them, otherwise I was really hoping for one that hopefully wouldn’t breed and that would be a moderate size. How good of cleaners are micro brittles?
I’ll definitely look up rayjay, I just know that in my opinion the only place I could get salt water fish in my city is in my opinion a little sketchy (not going to slander a store publicly regardless of what I’ve heard or seen). I’ve heard there are good salt water aquarium stores in both Calgary and Edmonton (about an hour and a half drive with good roads), what is the best way to keep seahorses and the bacteria in live rocks healthy for that long of a drive?
Also don’t apologise for the long post, actually I prefer someone who will actually take the time to write a good message and share their insight. Thank you for the post, it helped, even with my further questions.

 

[saxman]

Live macro = live macroalgae, which aren't true vascular plants, therefore, I make the distinction. True vascular plants such as the seagrasses require a deeper sandbed as well as lots of light.
All of the plants in this setup are macroalgae:

As for corals, I was really just letting you know that certain gorgonia can be tuff to keep, esp. when you have a SH that takes a liking to a particular spot on them. The polyps will actually die off in those areas. Again, the corals to generally avoid are those which have sweeper tentacles, such as Euphyllia, Plerogyra, Physogyra, etc.
To be honest, I never pay attention to how much LR I have in a given system...I 'scape them until I'm happy with the results. However, the general "rule of thumb" is 1# per gal. If you have a sump, and you feel you're a little shy on rock, you can add some to the sump. Also, live macro will pick up a lot of slack in your tank, as it uses ammonia first, thus keeping it out of the nitrogen cycle. Macro also uses nitrate and some phosphate as food as well.
As for substrate, 1"-2" will be fine. BTW, rayjay runs all his setups BB, which doesn't do it for me, personally, but he prefers ease of cleaning to asthetics. He's a good guy, and knows his SH keeping.
I've never had any problem with too many microbrittles...they pretty much keep to the LR, as opposed to ending up in your filters. These little stars feed on detritus and suspended organic particles (which is why you often see their "arms" extended from the LR).
The LR would be fine for that long...just try to keep it moist. As for the SH, be sure the LFS backfills the bag with O2 and you can just transport them in the bag, or if you like, get a bucket and a battery-powered air pump for the trip and put the SH in that.

 

[bahamit147]

I think you've now answered my initial questions better than I could have hoped this quickly. I guess I've got a gameplan for how I want to get my setup going, my last question would just have to be what kinds of macroalgae were in that picture? I specifically liked the green one, and the red in front, and the pink in the front right.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bahamit147 http:///t/393537/first-seahorse-aquarium#post_3501672
I think you've now answered my initial questions better than I could have hoped this quickly. I guess I've got a gameplan for how I want to get my setup going, my last question would just have to be what kinds of macroalgae were in that picture? I specifically liked the green one, and the red in front, and the pink in the front right.
I'm just piping in because I want to see if I can identify the macros right.
The green grape looking stuff...(I think Saxman was very brave). It can go sexual and make the entire tank water look like milk. It is called grape caulerpa. I never used it because I had seen what happened to others who had, I always loved the way it looked. The only caulerpa I was brave enough to put in my tank was Caulerpa prolifera (looks like sea grass) and as far as I know it doesn't go sexual like the grape.
The red in front I think is Gracilaria, but that just floats with no strong hold, so I am not sure how you would get it to stay put.
Just a thought: The Botryocladia (upper right hand corner) looks like the green grape except it is bright red, and it has never gone sexual on me, you might want to go that route. The pretty pink...I don't know what that is for certain, but it looks like Galaxaura...

 

[saxman]

To be honest, I dunno what the red stuff in the front center was...it was a "penny macro" from John Maloney, but the SH spent a whole lot of their time there as it was one of the best pod-havens I've seen.
Flower's ID's on the other macros are right on. The pink "galaxy" was a REALLY cool calcareous macro, that is kind of tuff to find. We also had some Codium in the tank on the left side (not pictured).
The thing with C. racemosa (green grape) is that it will "tell" you it's about to go sexual. It turns white with green spots, the spots being the gametes. If you see this, you need to prune all of the white stuff back (Don't be confused with the whitish active growth you may see on the tips of the rhizhomes [runners]).
Here's a pic:

We have actually let a couple of our setups "blow" just to see what happens, and we had no losses of livestock. A good WC and some carbon cleared it up:

HTH

 

[flower]

LOL...Saxman...If I saw my tank from the beauty you had before... to have it transform to look like that, I would just cry...and you did it on purpose. Do you remember a member called Lil guppy? Her grape caulerpa did that, and it was weeks before she got it cleared up. The grape caulerpa is really pretty but I don't think I would take the risk. I repeat myself, I think you are very brave to keep it. I would be a basket case examining it every day and evening for any signs of it getting ready to blow....LOL..the little new growths that are white you mentioned, wouldn't have a chance...if it's white it would be out of there!
Was the bright red macro in the center anchored at all, or just free floating? If it free floats and you anchored it, then I was correct on that one too.

I seldom get IDs correct, but I'm pretty good at macroalgae so far. I found a place that sells that Galaxaura, and when it comes back into season, I will be getting me some of that, I love it's color to contrast the red in my tank.

 

[saxman]

I just kinda shoved that one into the rockwork, Flower. I do know that the SH used to dive into the stuff head first to chase pods...looked pretty weird to see a SH body sticking out of the macro!
We got the "galaxy" from John Maloney, but have never seen it offered since then. We'll be keeping macro in the new 210, but we want to try some of the more interesting species and lean away from the fast-growers, as we don't want them outcompeting the stuff we REALLY want. That being said, there is a big wad of Chaetomorpha in the fuge ATM.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/393537/first-seahorse-aquarium#post_3501924
I just kinda shoved that one into the rockwork, Flower. I do know that the SH used to dive into the stuff head first to chase pods...looked pretty weird to see a SH body sticking out of the macro!
We got the "galaxy" from John Maloney, but have never seen it offered since then. We'll be keeping macro in the new 210, but we want to try some of the more interesting species and lean away from the fast-growers, as we don't want them outcompeting the stuff we REALLY want. That being said, there is a big wad of Chaetomorpha in the fuge ATM.
Gulf coast ecosystems offer all kinds of macros....including the Galaxaura, but certain macros have to be in season. I am soooo used to my seahorses diving into the macro to go hunting. It's kind of funny to feed them and see just a head stick out to make sure it's worth it to leave and go to the feeding area. They do love those amphipods.