First sump/'fuge design for my first SW tank!

[rob1116]

Any comments/opinions/ideas/possible problems would be GREATLY appreciated. This will be a reef system. Sorry, I got a little excited while drawing the diagram and went a little overboard... all the measurements just helped me make sure it'll all fit in my cabinet!
Please pay special attention regarding the water flow... ie. pipe sizes, baffle heights, return pump flow, etc. I'm not sure if it'll flow at the levels I've shown or not.
Thanks for any comments!
-Rob

 

[rob1116]

Here's a complete noob question: If I just fill the Main tank right up to the lip of the overflow, then fill the sump up almost all the way, then start the return pump... shouldn't that insure that I won't overflow the sump if/when the power goes out/pump dies?
After it's running like that, I can just add or remove water and the level in the sump will go up and down accordingly, right?
Oh, and the bottom pic is the layout in my cabinet.

 

[zanemoseley]

first off you probably don't need the filter media in the sump/fuge, second you probably don't wanna to put your heaters into the end part of the fuge because due to you pump it my not be full of water but I'm not sure, take a look at the post with attention:zanemoseley as the title, I guess it all depends on how full you initially fill the display tank and the sump/fuge tank

 

[rob1116]

Re Heaters: Yeah, looking at Blue Dew's sump, I'll probably have to move them... no problem.
As for the filter media: After my sump is up and 'living', I'll probably take most of it out... but I'd still like some mechanical filtration to keep the water crystal clear.
So other than that, does it look okay? The flow rates are okay?

 

[zanemoseley]

well the flow through the sump/fuge seems a bit high for normal fuges but it will probably work ok, you may not have much of a choice of the rate of overflow since it appears to be a prebuilt overflow but you may be able to reduce it with ball valves while still keeping the sipohon but I'm not good at the plumbing and valves, I'd add at least one more powerhead, if you're not too tight on money take a look at the Tunze Turbell Stream powerheads, you could get away with just one powerhead and the return pump

 

[rob1116]

Actually, the tank isn't mine yet... and I can chose whatever size overflow holes/bulkheads I want, and up/downgrade the pump accordingly.
On the other hand, I'll have about 4' of head, aswell as 3 X 90° turns... so the flow will probably be significantly less than 750GpH. What's the recommended flow rate for a 'fuge? I've heard 5XTank volume/hour... ?
I've heard nothing but good things about Tunze products... so I'll definitely be looking into those powerheads.

 

[blue dew]

Rob,
I like the idea for your setup, especially the skimmer section. I just didn't have room for the skimmer underneath my stand. I wasn't originally going to put an area for any other media (mech, etc...) in mine, but it does allow me the area to use if I had too. In fact, it came in very handy after I transfered the contents of one tank to the other since the whole setup looked like a milkshake. I ended up putting some of that white floss in that area to trap the dust. It really cleared up the tank quick, and I didn't see any pods, etc... trapped in the stuff when I removed it.
Wish I could go up to a 90, but that will have to wait until I get a house. I'm looking forward to seeing it up and running.
Dew

 

[gollus]

i problem i see, and correct me if im looking at this wrong, but it looks like you only have about an inch of water before your return pump is in the dry, maybe a little more, but not much more. With my sump it easily moves 2 inches from pump being off to pump being on, and over an inch lower every day from water evaporation. I dont think you are giving yourself enough water before your pump is dry, at least that isnt enough water to make me feel comfortable with it. But i might be just interpreting the scymatics wrong. Im talking about right after the refug, that 12" sheet of glass that goes all the way up.
Well now that I look at it i see you dont acctually have a measurement for that, I would make it as low as you can. To get a better idea from the top of that piece to the top of the other end of the refguem is about all the water you are going to have because of the way water flows and all that. Im having a hard time explaining this, maybe someone else could interpret and put it in better words?

 

[rob1116]

Ah yes, I understand what you're saying gollus.
With this setup, if I let the water line drop an inch my return section will dry out, and possibly kill my pump.
So is there anyway I can prevent this without lowering the last baffle too much? I'm trying to keep the refugium section as large as possible.
Thanks for any suggestions

 

[slofish]

This is what i saw at my LFS. They actually have their return pump directly in the refugium sitting on top of the "mud". They do have a giant sponge wrapped around the pump to catch debris from flowing in. This way, you'd be able to extend the size of your refugium and just have the heaters in there if you want.
also, you may want to lower the size of the refugium wall from 12 inches to 10 or so. You may run into trouble if you forget to top off the water for a couple of days.

 

[rob1116]

That sucks... I wanted at least 4" of substrate. If I lower the walls to 10", that'll only leave 6" of water! That's not much of a 'fuge.
How come Blue Dew's setup works?

 

[slofish]

if you do decide on having the return pump inside your fuge, and extend the fuge 3 inches, you'll have the same volume of water as if you had 12 inch high walls and the 3 inch space for your heater/return pump. of course, your right that you'd only have 6 inches in depth

 

[david s]

rob the last baffle does not set how high the water is. you can still fill the sump higher. what that baffle does is if you loose siphon the lower that baffle is the more water you will pump up to the main tank.
my main concern is having enuff room for the overflow water when you shut the pumps. (from the normal water level runing to pumps off). a water level of 13'' and a 18'' tall sump may work would be a little scary for me tho.

 

[rob1116]

David S: Okay, I see what you're saying... but what do you mean, "if you lose siphon". The flow into the sump is from my built-in overflow, and it just works on gravity... doesn't it?
Anyway, you're saying that I can have the last baffle lower, but still keep the high water level... that I understand. But the actual height of the water in the sump doesn't matter to me... I just wanted the last baffle as high as possible to create a seperate, somewhat contained refugium area for macroalgae growth. Am I making any sense at all?
And about overflowing the sump... I'll ask my earlier question again:
"Here's a complete noob question: If I just fill the Main tank right up to the lip of the overflow, then fill the sump up almost all the way, then start the return pump... shouldn't that insure that I won't overflow the sump if/when the power goes out/pump dies?
After it's running like that, I can just add or remove water and the level in the sump will go up and down accordingly, right?"
Thanks again for all your help... all of you! Keep the comments coming... I want to get it right the first time!

 

[john bowell]

OK, this might or might not help you out. From what I've read, if you use a sump and put culerpa algae in the middle with LS, you don't need a protein skimmer. Anyway, I haven't had to change my water in my tank (90 gal) for over 8 months, with ALL levels staying near "0" and calcium at 400. I don't know, maybe I am lucky.
I also have a 6 stage RO unit that I use for water. The 6th stage is a UV sterilizer. Seems to work for me.

 

[rob1116]

You also mentioned in another thread that this is a FOWLR tank right? Sounds like your setup is working fine, but I plan on corals being the focal point of my reef. I'm definitely going with as big a skimmer as I can afford/fit. Thanks anyway.

 

[rob1116]

Okay... I've done a few calculations, assuming I leave all the baffles in thier current positions. Running water level starting at 13", (which would be 1" over all the baffles except the one on the left of the filter media) as shown in the diagram.
I would have to lose, (evaporate) 1.5gals to drop that level by 1", bringing it to the lip of the return baffle. Then, assuming the minimum level in the return section of the sump for the pump to run properly is about 2", I'd have to lose another 1.6gals of water to run the pump dry.
So, unless I don't add any water to the tank for long enough to evaporate over 3gals, I won't have a problem with it running dry. And if I decide to go with a mag 9.5 return pump instead, and therefore increase the return section to 4" long... I'll have to let over 4gals evaporate before it runs dry. I don't know, but that should take over a week anyway.
And to ensure this never happens, I'm in the process of designing a constant drip top-off, as Blue Dew suggested.
I think I may be set! Anything else guys? This has been an incredible help.