First Tank size?

[jadallen]

I have been stalking this board for a while and am about ready to go buy my first tank. As is my nature I have been taking my time before jumping in. (at least I try to take my time with anything not related to women)
Any way I am debating about what size tank to start off with. Taking a rough estimate what would be the difference in price between the setup (not talking about the live rock, sand or fish) of a 125gal vs about a 160gal tank? The reason I ask this is I have a lfs that has a 160gal acrylic tank and stand for what seems a very reasonable price.
What should I really be looking at when deciding what tank and equipment to buy? Besides, what I have picked up from this board I have no idea what will be involved in getting started.
My desire is to setup a reef tank that will hopefully bring some color to my house. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[ray28576]

The number one thing that makes an aquarium so expensive, is the stand for it. Tanks by there self are reasonably inexpensive, but the stands cost money. You can get some great deals if you look in the classifieds "Trader paper."

 

[omgsaltwat]

If you want a reef tank make sure its reef ready (already drilled) with a good OF (over flow)! If you want a sump and fuge that is.

 

[sinner's girl]

go with bigger if you can afford it and you've shopped around for deal...
but with bigger tank you'll need more sand and more lr, more lights, and bigger fliter and more ph, heaters.
What should I really be looking at when deciding what tank and equipment to buy?
what's your goal for the tank? what fish do you want to keep? do you have room/money for the tank? I'd always go bigger, my self. But if you only want a few fish, then you might not want a bigger tank.
if you want reef then you'll need more stuff and more lr and ls. (buy sand, seed it with just some ls, a bag or a few cups, same with lr, you can buy some base rock and seed it with live rock...saves money. you can make your own lr also.) you'll need filter, skimmer, heater(s), phs, test kit, sand, lr, lights...if you're going reef you'll need good lights, search lights and you'll find out what kind and how much, the taller the tank, the more light you need (or high watts, however that works). of course salt. with bigger tanks you're water changes will be bigger, so you'll spend more on salt and water and other additives.
You may want to look into a ro unit as well.

 

[jadallen]

Sinner,
I can probably afford what ever it takes to get going, but I don't want to go overboard or waste any money starting off. If I actually knew what I was doing already I would probably go with a much larger custom tank, but like I said I don't want to get in over my head starting off. I also concede that it is very likely that I will want to upgrade once I get some experience.
As for my plans for the tank what I really want is color. I don't really want any large fish per se, what I want is alot of amonema's and bright colored fish.
OMG,
When you say make sure the tank is pre drilled what exactly does that mean? I have heard that many times when reading about advice for the tanks. Will most places that sell tanks also drill them for you?

 

[omgsaltwat]

OMG,
When you say make sure the tank is pre drilled what exactly does that mean? I have heard that many times when reading about advice for the tanks. Will most places that sell tanks also drill them for you?
If you want a sump or fuge then you need to have holes in the tank for the water to drain out to the sump/fuge and a return hole (maybe more that one) HTH...

 

[mrdsmack]

IMO start with as big as you can afford. I started with a 75 gal FOWLR and I wont some corals. The bigger the better. My curent tank is not predrilled but the future holds, IMO a monster 255 gal. As of now I'm researching support for the tank for the floor that Im putting it on.

 

[jdecter]

If I could start before I spent a dollar on this hobby I would first go join a local reefers club, then learn more from them in one day then I ever did at any LFS. Then see their tanks and what they did with them, then plan and buy my system.
I've now spent 2000k and I'll most likely have to chalk it all up to learning costs by the time I get the exact system done the way I end up.
Don't do it, don't buy something then upgrade its a huge waste of cash.
Simply spend the time and effort to learn everything you can before you start buying.
I don't mean buy a huge tank and get the most rare creatures you can from the get go but buy the tank you will end up being happy with first, and the system that goes with it and then make friends with local reefers and learn from experience of others.
Heres what I can tell you from the start:
If you want anemone's:
One they are one of the hardest creatures to own.
Two it takes a lot of daily work to keep them.
Clownfish do have preferences on which type of anemone they host in so you may want to try and decide which to buy according to who their counterparts are.
Also you must have a quality light system most likely a PC system of 12k or more, or a metal halide system if you want to start right.
Next thing I wish I knew was about pre drilled tanks with sump systems, they really are the only way to go with a tank now days.
Look up reef tanks, with sump system and overflows on the net. Read all you can about it.
Don't do bio ball systems. I wont get into why just trust me some things are gimicks and some aren't.
Also and this should stir some controversy. Experienced Reefers don't even start with LR and LS, and with the right tricks they can cycle their system and have some corals frags set in within a few weeks.
But thats people who know exactly what to do and how.
So heres my advice to you to save money:
Go with the biggest you'll ever want, get a plexiglass pre drilled system with a sump system. Something that puts a wet dry sock, protienskimmer, heater and mud or whatever sub filtration you plan.
Buy a stand that houses all this and makes it easy to clean as needed. Buy an RO/DI filter on ---- or so for 100bucks.
Buy a PC system with altinic (blue) and white bubbles (I bought a 48 inch set for 100bucks online a few weeks ago with 3 blue led moon lights too).
read all you can about anemone's theres not a ton to know but what there is to know can save you alot of time and effort in trying to keep one alive and happy.
Heres some things to know, if you keep more than one anemone you will have to be a police man and make sure they never contact eachother.
But it's done no matter what you read, I know folks with 3 different types in one tank but they had to watch like a hawk while they each settled into their own space.
Also if you do plan to buy anemones and any other creatures that stay in one place, put the anemones in first, then add any coral, because coral don't tend to move all over while anemones may take up to a week to find a footing.
Also read up on how to find a good spot for the anemone's in your tank and prepare the spot to hopefully meet the needs of the anemone so he will stay in place once he arrives and you place him.
Live Sand and Live Rock, I wont go into it but lets just say you don't need to have them to start a reef system you can cultivate a happy reef of your own with time, patience, and base rock and sand.
I'm betting this is a lot to chew on but thats what we are here for.
Last bit of advice, no fish store is there to make you buy the right purchase. They will sell you until your broke, so know that. The only advice you should take is from someone who has no financial gains from the advice.

 

[fedukeford]

to figure out what size tank to get , think of a tank size you want and double it, b/c youll wished you went bigger

 

[cgrant]

IMO...The bigger the better, I just purchased my 210 a couple months ago and alreay wish I had like a 400.

 

[dmjordan]

Go with the biggets tank you can afford. Remember though fish swim horizontally (sp?) not vertically so I would go with the biggest tank you can afford that is not a cube or tall tank.

 

[jadallen]

Thanks for the great advice jd!
My main question is how much of a price difference will there be by starting off with a 160gl reef tank vs a 125gal. Is the difference of price for the pumps, filters and lights going to be drastically higher? Also, with a 160gal tank will the equipment take up a lot more space than the 125, because all of my equipment will need to be able to fit in the stand.
Also, what are the chances I will need to buy a chiller for a 160gal reef tank? I typically keep my house temp at 70-68degs. Thanks again in advance for the help.

 

[reef diver]

by the way you can make your own stand, if the tank is light enough, for my 55 gal, i ook 4 cinderblocks, staked two horizonalyy on each end, and took 5 2x4's of the length of my tank, and then placed the tank on that. Does anyone know how much a saltwater tank would weigh with 40lbs of live rock and about 90 lbs of substrate?

 

[jdecter]

Again about the clubs, I joined one months after I bought my tank and I've had more people offer me thousands of free hand me down stuff that out does all I've spent thousands on.
I really suggest looking into a club. They would also know who locally sells the best deals on any and everything and most clubs also do bulk buys frequently to minimize cost on anything from new pumps, lights, sand, filters, you name it.
As for the difference in size, of course anytime you buy a bigger tank you'll need bigger equipment to support it, within reason. For instance a sump system is really what you should try to achieve from the get go it's really the latest the hobby has come as far as how to filter a tank properly and is also by far the easiest and asthetically pleasing way to hide all your filters and heaters and so on.
Your house is cool enough, A tank should not fluctuate in temp to much at that house temperature. However don't set up anywhere near a window. Trust me on this, nothing good comes from a tank with any type of sun coming near it for more reasons than temperature.
Also note, you don't want it near a heater duct or stove or anything like that either.
If you live somewhere that gets 90+ and you don't use your AC during that time, I'd say a cooler is a sure way to protect the tank during summer months.
But it seems your putting the cart before the horse if your looking into cooling systems to start.
What I'd do is, find the space you want the tank, measure it depth x width, (height doesn't matter as long as you have 2 ft of tank space above the height your stand will be, and another foot or so above that for lights and maitenance room.
Then see how much you can squeeze into that spot and work your way back to a sane tank size.
For example if you can get a 500 gallon tank in the spot, but that just boggles your mind, work back until you are comfortable, but one thing in this hobby different than most, biggest is best.
For one you'll upgrade if you don't go big enough the first time, (trust me).
Two its actually easier to keep water stable the more you have to work with.
And Three Fish do best in the most space allowed.
Some things to note, your fish should never have to be confined in a tank that is not more than double its full length during adult hood both length and width. Most fish don't turn comfortable in any diameter less than double their length.
Other tips - Plexy is cheaper, and lighter, and many products have come a long way to get out pesky scratchs and so on.
The most expensive thing in the hobby is not the tank.
You can estimate in the first 2 years of the hobby to spend about 50 bucks per gallon of tank. If you buy from a LFS, and do things the hard way.
(friends and clubs can greatly reduce that price).

 

[integral9]

Originally Posted by Reef Diver
Does anyone know how much a saltwater tank would weigh with 40lbs of live rock and about 90 lbs of substrate?
I couldn't find anything on seawater, but pure water weighs in at about 8.33 lbs / gal. (USGS) Add a little extra for the minerals that seawater has. To be safe, I'd estimate 8.5 lbs / gal.
So for your tank:
40 lbs (LR) + 90 lbs (substrate) + 8.5 * # of gal. = weight of stuff in tank.
Don't forget to add the weight of the tank, powerheads, etc. to get the total weight.
My little 35 gal. wieghs in at about 250 lbs.