First tank

cheapfish1

Member
I took the plunge and bought a 30 gal bow front. Would have loved to gotten bigger but due to parents not wanting it in any other room i had to put it in the little space left in my room. I set it up with the lfs recommended undergravel filter, plus a hang on. It has a cc bed with three large porous rocks and a piece of fiji LR. My main ? is that i hadnt yet started to cycle the tank but got the live rock with 10 green zoos( i i think) and a feather duster so will this survive through the cycle. Also what should i feed the zoos.
P.S. cycling started with a shrimp.
Thank you very much and please dont
for the cc bed or the undergravel filter as i have seen in some posts.
im so happy i have a tank
 

usinkit

Member
The zoos will probly die!! The shrimp will help kick off the cycle a little faster. You really should think about taking the UGF and CC out. They will only cause you headaches down the road (JMO) Good luck!!
 

devildog01

Member
Take the CC out while you can. I have a HUGE project coming up (trying to mentally prepare for this task) because I have to take out 100 pounds of LR to take my CC out and put LS in. I HATE IT!!! They trap trates like crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

cheapfish1

Member
yeah thats what i was afraid of, but that really sounds like a pain in the butt, how bad is it really if the lfs guys suggested it?
 

hot883

Active Member
Originally Posted by cheapfish1
yeah thats what i was afraid of, but that really sounds like a pain in the butt, how bad is it really if the lfs guys suggested it?
He got your money didn't he? Thats the point you will learn on these boards. We don't want your money, the LFS DO! I had UG with CC 15 years ago and a serious pain. I'm sorry that he/she steared you in that direction. Smaller tanks are harder to keep water good because of just volume, now add the detrius trap (UG filter and CC) and it makes it worse. The zoos will end up dead because of th cycle IMO and also if you did not get good lights then they are really doomed. See if you can get a store credit on them or have them take it back until the tank cycles. LFS make me so mad when they do that.
Welcome to the boards and do alot of research on here BEFORE you buy anything. It will save a ton of money, frustration and heart aches.
 

hot883

Active Member
Originally Posted by DevilDog01
Take the CC out while you can. I have a HUGE project coming up (trying to mentally prepare for this task) because I have to take out 100 pounds of LR to take my CC out and put LS in. I HATE IT!!! They trap trates like crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Adam did you see my thread on changing the tank over?
 

cheapfish1

Member
just disconnecting the air pump wouldnt by any chance fix it would it. He said that if i wasnt getting a protein skimmer (too cheap) then i should get this because it is a good bio filter, but i take it not true eh
anyone in the detroit area want to buy some zoos
 

hot883

Active Member
Originally Posted by cheapfish1
just disconnecting the air pump wouldnt by any chance fix it would it. He said that if i wasnt getting a protein skimmer (too cheap) then i should get this because it is a good bio filter, but i take it not true eh
anyone in the detroit area want to buy some zoos
Disconnecting the airline won't help to much because the excessive food/waste will still settle down into the cc. Yes, vacumning does help but you can't get it all out. CC will not be a good substrate for some snails, crabs, shrimps, any stars etc. that like to bury down into the sand.
 

usinkit

Member
the sand would eventually sift through the cc and you would still have the same problem. better off taking everything out. its not really that hard to do since you are not loaded up with rock, corals and fish.
 

cheapfish1

Member
ok a day after i put the shrimp in my tank the whole room smells like rancid seafood but owell. My question though with the sand is is if i put it on top of the cc will that allow me to keep some crabs and snails shrimp etc as mentioned before.
also do turbo snails, peppermint shrimp, and hermit crabs need sand? if so what is another type of these that i can use? thank you guys very much for your input all be it is not what i wanted to hear lol
 

hot883

Active Member
Originally Posted by cheapfish1
ok a day after i put the shrimp in my tank the whole room smells like rancid seafood but owell. My question though with the sand is is if i put it on top of the cc will that allow me to keep some crabs and snails shrimp etc as mentioned before.
also do turbo snails, peppermint shrimp, and hermit crabs need sand? if so what is another type of these that i can use? thank you guys very much for your input all be it is not what i wanted to hear lol
As stated above the sand would eventually sift down into the cc. JUST LISTEN to our advice here and change it out. We are telling you this because WE HAVE BEEN there. It's so much easier to do it NOW and not later when you start to get problems ok? We re here to help. You can listen to the advice offered, of course you do not have to take it. It's your tank, do what you want, just trying to get you going in the right direction from the start.
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
ok, i'm quoting the moderator, thomas, from another thread:
"Why change from CC to SSB or DSB?
Most of us will not use crushed coral because it is a large substrate that traps the fish waste and uneaten food that has to be vacuumed before it creates nitrates, which it will anyway. Crushed coral does not provide a very good biological zone, and many tanks are setup with CC from the get go through lack of knowledge or because it is the only substrate that an LFS sells and tells you that it is all you need, using a selling point of CC has buffering power. I have personally battled nitrates over 100 ppm during my days of CC and UGF doing frequent large water changes. So many of us have been there and had high nitrates, did a water change to lower them and they were back in a couple of days. CC has sharp edges, which is undesirable for inverts, like anemones walking around, pods or worms. No getting around it CC is high maintenance and can lead to poor water quality, frequent maintenance, sick livestock, algae blooms and more.
"Sand on the other hand has more benefits. These include having far more surface area thereby making it able to handle a higher bio load of bacteria. It is less dangerous to your infauna and has a more natural look in the tank. If going with a DSB Deep Sand Bed you can have other benefits as well like finishing the denitrification or providing sand sifting, burrowing, or tunneling fish and critters a place to play. The denitrification process predominantly occurs in deeper substrates and in areas of stagnant flow where oxygen levels are depressed. And this is why deep sand beds are effective as a nitrogen export mechanism. As water slowly diffuses deeper, aerobic organisms strip all available oxygen for respiration. In the deep, oxygen-deprived layers, denitrifying anaerobes are given the opportunity to convert nitrogen compounds into nitrogenous gases, which escape via tiny bubble out of the aquarium. I believe this process can also work on a limited basis in shallow sand beds. My sand bed is no more than 2 inches deep in some spots."
Having said that, there's nothing more we can do to try and get you to switch now. You should do it now, as it will be so much easier.
Now, that's not the reason you posted this thread, so i will linger on that subject no more.
(don't worry, i think most of us started with CC!!! Darned LFS!!!!!!)
As for your question: The zoos and feather duster have about a 1% chance of surviving a cycle, so IMO, take them back to the LFS, and ask if they can hold it for you or exchange it for store credit... blame it on them, and explain to them that the guy knew you were just purchasing the tank (he sold it to you), and that he should've known that you can't put corals and inverts into a cycling tank. Good luck!!!
 

cheapfish1

Member
ok that aside how long should i leave the shrimp in there to start the cycly, or is there a certain level my ammonia has to get to ?
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
well, michael fenner (author of the book "a conscientious marine aquarist" says that you should do water changes to keep your ammonia at or below 1.0. If it gets higher than that, your hitchikers are at risk of death. He also says that when the ammonia gets too high, it's counterproductive, and it will actually inhibit the growth of the good bacteria. This will majorly increase the liklihood of survival for your polyps and duster!
In general, you should leave it in for a few days, then remove it. make sure you're testing your ammonia every few days.
 

treybomb

Active Member

Originally Posted by jdragunas
well, michael fenner (author of the book "a conscientious marine aquarist" says that you should do water changes to keep your ammonia at or below 1.0. If it gets higher than that, your hitchikers are at risk of death. He also says that when the ammonia gets too high, it's counterproductive, and it will actually inhibit the growth of the good bacteria. This will majorly increase the liklihood of survival for your polyps and duster!
In general, you should leave it in for a few days, then remove it. make sure you're testing your ammonia every few days.
sorry to be picky but just for the sake f her getting the right book.... its robert fenner.. i think
 

cheapfish1

Member
yeah its at about .75 right now so i will leave it in till tomorrow and then figure out the easiest way to get out the shrimp that i forgot to either put on a string or sit high in the tank, oops lol
 

fishmamma

Active Member
It sounds as though you do not have a test kit?? Test ammonia levles every 24-48 hours through out the cycling process. At some point begin testing nitrite and nitrate levels also. Once you see a shift in the levels going from high ammonia to high nitrite and nitrate you are coming to the end of your cycle. Remove the shrimp with a fish net if you have one or slap on some powder free gloves. I think your zoos might make it if your ammonia doesn't get too high so IMO remove the shrimp ASAP and let the tank do it's thing. Once nearly you may want to 'feed' the tank as you would if there were a fish or two in it. This will maintain your bacteria level until you add some livestock.
You picked a great tank, I have a 16 gallon bow front and a 29 gallon tall. I am a huge fan of bows!! :cheer: If you can remove the cc it will be worth the effort in the long run, and if you can afford a protein skimmer down the road it will be very beneficial in a tank that size. Good luck!! :happyfish :happyfish :happyfish
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
Originally Posted by treybomb

sorry to be picky but just for the sake f her getting the right book.... its robert fenner.. i think
haha, i mixed the two up... i have the pocketexpert guide to marine fish by scott michael and the cons. mar. aqu. by robert fenner... oopsy! Thanks trey!!!
 

cheapfish1

Member
Originally Posted by fishmamma
It sounds as though you do not have a test kit?? Test ammonia levles every 24-48 hours through out the cycling process. At some point begin testing nitrite and nitrate levels also. Once you see a shift in the levels going from high ammonia to high nitrite and nitrate you are coming to the end of your cycle. Remove the shrimp with a fish net if you have one or slap on some powder free gloves. I think your zoos might make it if your ammonia doesn't get too high so IMO remove the shrimp ASAP and let the tank do it's thing. Once nearly you may want to 'feed' the tank as you would if there were a fish or two in it. This will maintain your bacteria level until you add some livestock.
You picked a great tank, I have a 16 gallon bow front and a 29 gallon tall. I am a huge fan of bows!! :cheer: If you can remove the cc it will be worth the effort in the long run, and if you can afford a protein skimmer down the road it will be very beneficial in a tank that size. Good luck!! :happyfish :happyfish :happyfish
no i do have a test kit but the colors were just in between 1 and .5 so i guessed at point 75. Thank you guys for the responses.
 
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