Fish die, other stuff doesn't.

sueandherzoo

sueandherzoo

Active Member
I'm at my wits end and have no idea what to try. Can't fix it if I don't know what's broken. I know it's hard to keep fish in an 12 gallon Eclipse but I'm certainly not overloading.... I can't keep fish alive long enough to overstock!
What can it possibly be that keeps killing fish but doesn't affect inverts? My snails are fine, my shrimp is fine, my feather duster is fine, but I can't keep a fish alive. I'm five for five now. Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, PH salinity get checked daily, before and after deaths, and are always good. Thoguht maybe it was too little oxygen so added a powerhead. Didn't help. What kills fish but doesn't affect the other stuff? I can't keep buying fish only to kill them - do I tear it apart, sterilize everything, and start fresh?
Sue
 
sueandherzoo

sueandherzoo

Active Member
The tank is a 12 gallon Eclipse that I set up 3 months ago. After the cycle was done I put in a scooter blenny. He did good and the water parameters were fine so I put in a small false perc. The two did OK for a week and then both died the same day. I did a water change, waited a week, and then bought a tiger pistol shrimp and yellow watchman goby pair from another LFS than the first time. The shrimp is great - the goby died in 36 hours. I waited about two weeks and then bought a small sharp-nose puffer. He lasted 5 days. Since I'm new and since I've had such rotten luck I test my water EVERY DAY. AFter the cycle was complete the ammonia has always been zero, the nitrites fluctuate between zero and the next level up, and the nitrates are between 10-20. Ph goes between 8 and 8.2 Salinity is at .025. Temp is 74.
My latest loss was a small yellow watchman. He paired up almost instantly with the lonely pistol shrimp, and three days later, he's dead. I'm at my wits end.
Feather duster, snails, and shrimp are fine. I'm ready to tear it down but I just can't give up without finding out WHAT is wrong!!!!
 
sueandherzoo

sueandherzoo

Active Member
Sorry, forgot to answer one of your questions. You asked how I am sterilizing but I assume you meant acclimating? I do the drip method for about 2 hours and then I float the livestock in a bag in the tank for 20-30 minutes.
I just don't get it.
 
novahobbies

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
Sue,
I've been following along, and I'm so sorry your watchman died. :-( I was really hoping the increased flow would help if it was an aeration problem. Obviously either that wasn't the issue, or it wasn't enough.
Don't get discouraged.
Maybe we need to find out how many people have used these tanks. My aunt had one, and she had very similar problems, which led to her disassembling that tank completely. (She has a 90 gallon that is running smoothly, BTW)
Why don't you use this thread for ideas, but also post this same qquestion in the nano section.....let's find out if any nano tank keepers have had problems with the 12 gallon eclipse and overcome them .
I wish I could be of more help here. I have a 5 gallon corner unit eclipse that I use for a small QT tank, and honestly I've never had the problems with that tank that you're describing with your 12 gallon. I'm hoping someone else can step in and point you straight. I'm almost starting to wonder if it's the tank itself.....something in there that chemically isn't agreeing with the fish. It's a long shot, but possible.
 
ajer

ajer

Member
I would guess your pH is the problem. First of all, your pH is a tad low. It should be 8.1-8.3 (8.0 is low). Second, it's very stressful for your fish to have the pH change (every 1.0 change is 10 times more acidic or alkaline!). If you have some buffering material in the tank, it's not enough. You should use a buffering agent such as "Marine Buffer" by Seachem.
Hope this helps
 
oceanlover

oceanlover

Member
I have a 12 gallon Eclipse that I use for quarantine. There is no live sand in it but I do keep a couple of pieces of live rock in it and a castle-decoration my kids got me. That way the inhabitant has a place to hide when they are new. Generally I have only one fish in it but I did have 5 blue chromis for a couple of weeks when my friend's tank developed a leak. It can be empty for long periods too as I use it only for quarantine. (Mercifully I haven't needed to treat any sick fish. . . . . yet, knock on wood.)
I do keep my tank a little warmer, about 78-80 degrees.
The only other thing I can think of is the filter. I would take the plastic and really scrub it well in white vinegar and then in sea water. Replace the filtration medium in case there is something small and nasty in there.
Sorry to hear about your trouble. Its terribly frustrating for you.
 
steelytom

steelytom

Member
Maybe the collector of those fish is using cyanide to collect. I have had a few fish only live a few days. They ate fine and all seemed well, then they would just die. I have suspected cyanide, but don't know for sure. Maybe try getting a aquacultured fish from a different supplier. They sell a lot of aquacultured clowns on this site. No real need to quarantine if you don't have any fish in the tank.
 
maryg

maryg

Member
Sue,
Sorry to hear. That is very frustrating. It may be the eclipse system itself. I am not too familiar with them but I am not sure they are really suitable for saltwater.
I have a 12 gallon Aquapod. It has been up for about 4 months now. Everything is going good. I do have to do a small water change once a week.
I have about 15 pounds of LR and LS. It has a small sixline wrasse and a yellow watchman goby and 2 peppermint shrimps. I should get the goby a pistol shrimp.
Here is a pic of mine.
I am sorry to hear you are having such a bad time with something that should be enjoyable.
 
sueandherzoo

sueandherzoo

Active Member
Thanks for the support and thoughts.... it's very depressing and the "guilt" of having killed 5 fish over the past 2 months is awful. There's another possibility that occurred to me and I'd love to know your thoughts on this:
At the end of my cycle and before I had anything in the tank (besides LS and LR) I brought home a few critters from the beach. Two fiddler crabs, a clam, a scallop, a rock with a plant, and some snails. I KNOW I shouldn't have but I was so bored with having an empty tank and I figured no real harm could come from it since I didn't have any livestock in the tank. It was to tide me over while I waited for the day when I could get my first fish. The crabs were entertaining as hell and I really enjoyed having them but when it came time to buy my first fish I rounded up the crabs, clam and scallop and took them back to the beach. I kept the snails, though..... figured they'd help with the clean up.
Could I have introduced something into the tank by bringing home those wild-caught critters? Keep in mind all invertebrates are fine - it's the FISH I can't keep alive!
Would love your thoughts. Thanks in advance.
Sue
 
steelytom

steelytom

Member
the rock you got could be contaminated (pesticides, oil, metals), maybe parasites. Where did you get the rock? The beach is the oceans protein skimmer. The waves make the foam and it all goes to the beach. Bad move and probably the reason everything died. Plus I am pretty sure fiddlers would eat a any of your fish because they are easy targets. They sleep on the bottom where the fiddlers can get them easily. Are there any marks on the dead fish? I think it would be best to strart over at this point. Test kits are not picking up the problem because you are not testing for any pathogens you may have brought in.
 
sueandherzoo

sueandherzoo

Active Member
I understand that it was a bad move but I put the wild-caught things in there before I had any livestock in the tank and I removed the crabs, clam and scallop (and the rock) before I put any livestock in the tank. The only thing I kept was the snails.... I need to look into that more.
Sue
 
steelytom

steelytom

Member
How about some pics of the snails and tank. I don't know much about snails, but some can be predatory. Most are ok, but there are bad ones.
 
novahobbies

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by steelytom
http:///forum/post/2804098
the rock you got could be contaminated (pesticides, oil, metals), maybe parasites.
I first thought the same thing, but if this was the case, wouldn't the inverts (the feather duster esp.) have been the first to go? Not counting fiddler crabs, most inverts are notoriously sensitive to chemicals in the tank. I could be wrong here, and if so someone please correct me, but that feather duster really would have been the one to die first with most chemical poisionings....right?
 
maryg

maryg

Member
I would remove the rock. Do a massive water change and run lots of carbon to clean out your system. Wait a few weeks then start over with new fish. I think you already said you returned the sea creatures back to the sea. Then it should be ok. Have you checked your nitrates? I usually have to do at least 2-3 gallon water change every 1-2 weeks.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
What kind of top off water are you using? If you are using de-chlorinated tap water you may have some excess clorine/chloramines in the water. But then, that doesn't really explain why only your inverts do well.
Do you ever hear a small popping sound coming from your tank? It could be a mantis shrimp. lol.
How are you doing water changes? What water are you using? What type of lights do you have? What is the light cycle time? How many pounds of live rock do you have? What kind of filtration system do you use? Do you use a UV sterilizer? Do you acclimate your live stock?
 
nano12er

nano12er

Member
Hey there Sue,
Sorry to hear about your troubles with the 12. The first thing you should do is definately remove the rock you collected, who knows what is inbedded in it. My Eclipse 12 took a little while to balance out, I think largely due to the bio wheel, it takes some time for them to become established and useful. I think mine was around three months or so. I lost a few fish here and there as well during the first few months. Partly to lack of knowledge, as well as mis-information from my lfs (idiots). I had a tough time getting it to balance out, I found that using Kent's Marine Nano (parts A&B) worked well, buffered my ph, and provided what I needed. Since then, no losses, not sure if it was the Kent's or maybe my system finally balanced when the wheel became "mature". Are you using dip tests or Drip tests, dips are inaccurate and maybe your water is worse than it appears. Most lfs' use dips when you take them a sample, so their readings may be inaccurate as well....
Good Luck!!
 
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