fish help! ... frustrated

[fishguy83]

Hey everyone...
so if you don't know, my tank cycled introduced some snails/crabs, doing fine -- bought two perc clowns and they both died (i think brooklynella) ...
So LFS owner suggests that I get some damsels to see if they live since they are cheap and hardy - cuz he didn't want to admit it was brooklynella (and have me expect a somewhat refund/credit) - again, i just suspected that, maybe it wasn't... but..
This a good idea? I told him I def. wouldn't want to keep damsels, he said he would take them back for his display tank in the store...
I'd hate to go ahead and buy 2 more clowns, or even just a more expensive fish - just to have it die if it is an issue with my tank (although I do not think it is)
Ammonia - I test 0.0, LFS tested 0.25
NitrA - about 5
NitrI - 0
Salinity - 1.025
pH - 8.0 or 8.2 (varies some)
please help!

 

[mikeyjer]

How long have the tank been running??? The ammonia could be from your dead fish, I would of left them in there, the cleanup crew would of taken care of it. Test your water again a couple of days later to see what happens. Do a large water change and wait a couple of days and then try again. Samething happened to me as well a couple of weeks ago with my newest tank, everything tested fine, but the new fish died within 3 days. A week later I did a large water change and added another fish, he is doing just fine. Might be bad fish, you'll never know..... :happyfish

 

[murph]

IMO this is not a bad idea. The cycling phase is only the first step in the process of "seasoning" a tank.
Get a couple of blue damsels and let em have the tank for a couple of months. Keep in mind that you will want to remove them after the tank has stabilized and you are confident of adding your intended live stock. This will involve the removal of some if not all of your rock to catch them so don't get caught up in doing any complex aquascapeing during the damsels stay in your tank.
If possible check out some other sources for livestock in the mean time as it sounds like this LFS has some problems with his holding tanks. Many dose copper willy nilly to prevent parasite out breaks and neglect top offs, water changes or anything else that is going to add to there overhead.
Make sure you are acclimateing properly also. Test the SG of the LFS water when you first put it in your acclimation bucket. It will probably be much lower than your 1.025. Drip until both acclimation bucket and tank SG are the same. Double check your hydrometer with a refractometer wich any good LFS should have to make sure of the actual SG of your tank water.
Under no circumstance allow any of the LFS water into your system. There is a good chance it contains copper and god knows what else.

 

[fishguy83]

thanks for the replies
mikeyjer - The tank has been running for about a month - I cycled with a piece of shrimp, - all levels spiked and then went back down, I let nitrites hit zero and did water changes, which dropped the nitrates. I think they were bad fish. Snails and hermits are doing fine (when he tested ammonia, he only got 0.25, I know any ammonia is bad, but is that enough to be toxic within 2 days) - I already removed fish as soon as they died, I unfortunately was around to watch both of them die, and removed them immediately.
murph - I was thinking damsels for two weeks or so - if water tests OK (it has been), then getting some clowns again. I didn't drip acclimate, but I did acclimate correctly, for temp, then adding 1/4 c of water every 15 minutes for an hour, dumping some water from bag, then doing it again for another hour. They were doing great when I first added them to tank, swimming alot and eating well...(no water from LFS in my tank either)...
Unfortunately, I did my research on the are LFS's and thought I was going to the best one - I think I will continue to try them, maybe I just got bad fish - other options are a place that has great freshwater, but crappy saltwater (small tanks where fish can jump between, they are like little acrylic holding tanks lined up, I wasn't impressed. Other option is *****, and I don't think this one seems too good...If not, pittsburgh is only about 1.5 hours away - maybe I can find a decent one there.... even if it means driving that far...What about ordering fish online? I just figured if I could find a good local place, the fish would go through less stress???

 

[sinner's girl]

don't add fish till am is 0!
QT all fish before adding them to display
acclimate correctly
Ph is a little low at 8.0....why does it vary?
However, if inverts are doing fine, changes are the water's fine...

 

[murph]

Definitely drip acclimate any new additions to the tank. The symptoms of acclimation shock are exactly how you described the symptoms of your clown fish deaths. Fish will seem normal for a few days before the acclimation shock hits them and then a sudden death.
I would get the inexpensive damsels, give a long drip acclimation checking SG as I said before introducing them to the tank and give the tank a few months with them. Blue damsels are active interesting fish, quick to go on there feed and quite hardy and if you do happen to be making some sort of mistake the financial hit is not that bad.
Remember that SW aquariums and reef systems in particular are much like gardens. Patience is a key factor. You would not expect to plant tomato seeds this weekend and expect to be making tomato sauce the next.

 

[fishguy83]

Thanks for all the advice
1) I am being patient, oftentimes telling the LFS people no, like when they suggested I buy an anenome for my new clownfish, when I have regular aquarium lights, and tank is going for only a month or so...
2)sinner's girl - ammonia was 0 tested by both LFS and me before fish, actually long before fish, I was letting it cycle and waiting for extra funds... my test continues to test 0, and LFS said 0.25 (but looked closer to 0 to me, girl there said it was def. 0.25) Ordering a test kit now though, salifert people have recommended? ideas?
3) QT really isn't an option for me now (I know, I know you can't expect this hobby to be cheap, but I have to make it affordable, I'm not cutting on what everyone agrees to be necessities (like salt, lol :hilarious ) - but I have heard of plenty of succes stories of people not having them, and plently of horror stories - I'll try the damsel thing out, then try some others slowly (removing the damsels first) and then I'll decide whether or not I truly need a QT (if i was buying a tang or something, i'm not, tank is too small, I would probably def. QT because of the ich factor, from what I've read/researched)
4)pH is just blah - everyone said not to dose, but I've been using this pH stuff from seachem, seems to be working - will look into this more when I get a better test kit and before adding damsels. I tested water that I have mixed, and it is testing at 7.8 (not RO/DI) --- tank during the night (now 2am) tested at 8.2 - and no I did not set up with RO/DI water, I know slap my hand - but am moving over to will have to be purchased by the gallon from either ***** or gallon jugs at target (the water says, "has been purified through reverse osmosis") Will mix up some of that see how pH sits (of course, I need to invest in another PH - to put in my tub for mixing up, I think that is why it dropped to 7.8 - i think after i mix it, it is usually about right (8.2)
5)Inverts are thriving - those nassarius snails rule the tank - and hermits are molting and scurrying about - they seem happy (which is also why I think the clowns were diseased, what else could explain torn/missing/eaten fins and white stuff (i think brooklynella) - (when no other fish are in tank, and it is when they are swimming about alright, but not in great shape - I highly doubt h. crabs got to them...)
6) will definately drip acclimate (i planned on it, but forgot to get the tubing, and read that people had success with the 1/4c thing, so thought I'd give it a go..)
7) I really want to get some interesting fish, other than damsels, but like I said, will try them out and use that time to research food, and get some stuff on hand (supplements, the garlic stuff, etc...) because I am somewhat budgeted on the tank - which is forcing me to take it slow, a good thing.. haha
alright, I will shut up now... please post more comments, and I will continue to listen to everyone's advice, and not get mad and go to a freshwater (like I threatened, once already) THANKS for the all the help

 

[fishguy83]

bump

 

[nemo's mom]

Damsels are a good idea! Once you trade them for the fish you want to keep, only purchase 1 fish at a time. Give the tank a chance to get used to the changing bioload. Make sure you observe your fish for about 3 weeks before adding a new fish. That way you can be sure the fish is healthy. If you ever need to QT, you can use a large rubbermaid plastic tub and a cheap filter or by a 10 gallon fishtank at Walmart w/pump, etc for about $30. Good luck!

 

[sinner's girl]

but I have heard of plenty of succes stories of people not having them
*looks around* shhhh! I've never had QT tank...*runs and hides*
however, I have a 20long I keep on hand if I need it. currently a bowl is serving as a hospital for a fw fish...(don't want it to die in the tank....)

 

[phishface]

if you make the trip to pittsburgh, try WET PETS, SEAHORSE, and believe it or not PET SUPPLIES PLUS in bridgeville are all good. i bought fish from all 3, and all are doing fine. IMO of course. :joy:
qt tank? maybe if there was a good reason- i mean if you take a fish home that doesnt look good in the store, your asking for trouble.

 

[sleasia]

fishguy...you can also consider getting chromis instead of damsels. they are the same "family" but are peaceful fish...this way, if you can't catch them to remove them from the tank, you can just keep them...but definately don't add anything until the ammonia and nitrite is 0

 

[fishguy83]

thanks everyone for all the help, advice, and support...
I really am just trying to do this the right way...
phishface, ever heard of elmer's aquarium??
I think pittsburgh, unless my LFS works out better from now one might be an option..

 

[murph]

Since these are the first fish in this display tank not having a QT in this situation is not that big a deal. Basically your main tank is the QT.
Now if you had some prize specimens already in the tank and thriving then of course you would want to QT any new fish to avoid passing on any problems to your already established fish.
The only down side to this is if you do end up adding some compromised fish to your new tank you are looking at a month or two of not having fish in the tank at all while the parasite or pathogens you introduced run there course with no host fish and die off.

 

[jcazz10]

Originally Posted by fishguy83
thanks everyone for all the help, advice, and support...
I really am just trying to do this the right way...
phishface, ever heard of elmer's aquarium??
I think pittsburgh, unless my LFS works out better from now one might be an option..
I am fairly new to this hobby, had my tank for 5 months...check water every week...on tuesdays...water changes on time...the bought my dreaded TANG...on a friday...he ate, acted fine...then BLACK MONDAY...ICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was panick stricken...my wife in tears!!!!!!!!
Our perc's got the ick also!!!!!!!!!
Thanks to the great people on this site and all of the info....decided to purchase a 10 gallon QT Tank...used live sand and 2 small pieces of rock from DT....and started my "hospital" as my 2 little girls call it!
I am happy to say that my clowns no longer have the problem...and my tang is looking better everyday!!!!
I understand money is tight, but spend the $60.00 dollars for a 10 gallon set up....it is worth it!!!!!!!