Flame Angel Develops Ich Overnight? Help Please!

[yannifish]

Okay, I'm getting worried. She is rather sluggish. She looks fine, and really isn't acting strange, she just seems sluggish. And she is showing less and less interest in food. And she is only completing week two of hypo. What am I doing wrong? I've been doing a 50% water change every other day to keep ammonia down, and I'm going to increase that to every day just to see if it helps.
Any suggestions are welcome. I don't have any idea what is going on.
She isn't losing weight though.

 

[chevyblue96]

I really hope you have better luck with this then I did. I lost my flame. He was eating fine, still active (I actually have a video of him 2 hours before he died). He just (and I mean maybe... slightly) slowed down and acted sluggish but hardly even noticeable and then an hour later he was at the bottom on his side.... another hour and he was gone.
What I was told (and now wish I would of done) is if they were breathing heavy to fresh water dip.. Who knows, that might of kept mine going. Like I said, I'm pulling for yours! Keep us posted.

 

[yannifish]

Sorry to hear about your angel, chevy.
She looked quite a bit better today. She even picked at some algae sheet I put in there. I did another water change too.
Joe, in another thread of mine concerning how she is eating, it was suggested that maybe my dissolved oxygen was low, due to the higher ammonia levels. About a week ago I took out the airstone, as it didn't seem like it was needed anymore. I put it back in tonight.
Could low dissolved oxygen be responsible for the sluggishness and feeding issues?

 

[spanko]

Low dissolved oxygen can certainly affect your fish in sluggishness. Signs of oxygen depletion would be gasping at the surface or rapid breathing. As for eating certainly water quality, gill parasites and jsut an overall infection can be factors to a fish not eating.

 

[yannifish]

Now she has popeye in her left eye.

She is breathing really heavy this morning. She is still swimming, but the eye seems to have made her unbalanced, as when she stops swimming she tips to one side.
Any ideas what I should do?

 

[spanko]

It being in one eye points to a mechanical - bump in the night- kind of problem rather than a bacterial infection.
"If caused by Injury: Pop eye caused by trauma can often heal by itself if given optimal conditions. Move the fish with pop eye to a tank where it can be alone and won't get stressed by other fish. Make sure to keep perfect water quality in the tank. Adding a tablespoon of Epson salt for every 5 gallon of water for at least 3 days (longer if necessary) in your tank may help the recovery by drawing the fluid out. Please note, Epsom salts isn't really salt (sodium chloride) it is Magnesium Sulphate.
If caused by environmental factors: It is very important to improve water quality and other environmental issues to avoid more fish getting sick. Fish will never get well if you don't improve the environment. If water quality is the problem (high nitrates/nitrites/ammonia etc), perform a 50 percent water change as soon as possible and then 15-20 percent water changes 3-5 times per week, until the water readings are correct. Overstocking is a common problem for bad water quality. Another common reason would be decaying dead fish and fish food. The tank should be thoroughly searched for any dead fish and check if you are not over feed.
If caused by water contamination: check for any new items, which was added to the aquarium recently, it should be double checked that it is not poisoning the water or letting off chemicals. Check the quality of the water conditioner ( take good opinion by other aquarists). "

 

[yannifish]

Well, I've been doing a 50% water change every day, so I'm doing the best I can for water quality.
She did jump out of the acclimation container when I went to put her in the tank, and landed on that side after falling about six inches. Obviously I was right there and put her back in water within two seconds, but could the irritation from her being on the carpet have caused the popeye? It was almost three weeks ago.
She was pretty stressed out this morning, breathing hard, and like I said off balance.
I hope she'll be alright.
Should I do anything, or will it heal itself?

 

[florida joe]

There is a product called Maracyn-Two that is a strong antibiotic it will treat popeye as well as gill infection.
If you use this product please read the brochure carful and follow the instructions exactly. How long has the fish been in QT now

 

[yannifish]

I'll check for the Maracyn-Two, but I doubt I'll be able to get it. I don't have a LFS, just a chain pet supplies store.
I'll have had her for three weeks on Thursday, and she has been in hypo for two weeks as of yesterday.

 

[florida joe]

Your chain pet store may have it just make sure it’s the one for salt water
Ok now this up to you. You may want to just roll the dice and put your fish in the DT. It may just need to get out of the HT with all the fulgurations in water parameters. BUT you run the risk of reinfection in your DT and have to start the time frame all over again reintroducing the fish into the HT.
I personally would cut down on the water changes and just use Prime to deal with ammonia and nitrites

 

[yannifish]

I will see how she looks tonight. The problem is it will take a week to get the salinity back up to 35 ppm.
Now, I do have some sort of ich medication at my house. I'll look at it to see what is in it. I've used it in my freshwater tank, but not my saltwater. However, there are instructions on it for use in saltwater. So I'll look at that and stop by the chain store and look.
Maintaining water quality in a ten gallon is proving very difficult. I need to get a twenty gallon QT.
Okay, I was thinking that. The water changes just provide unneeded stress I think. At least everyday ones.

 

[florida joe]

do not use any other ick medication

 

[yannifish]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight-help-please/120#post_3374507
do not use any other ick medication
Alright. She looks better this afternoon, it looks like the swelling in her eye has gone down.
For Beth:

1) The QT is newly set up, right?
Yes, it is. I set it up about a week prior to getting the fish, and put filter media in about 24 hours before. The filter media was the carbon pack that came with the filter and a good amount of filter floss I had placed in the sump of my DT three+ months prior to setting up the tank.
2) What pumps, filters are running in the QT?
Aqueon 20 HOB filter (about 120 gph) and a powerhead that runs about 150 gph. Jager 75w heater, keeps the tank right at 80 degrees.
3) What are your current water readings in the QT?
Temperature: 80 Degrees
Ammonia: >0.25ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
pH: 8.2
I test with API liquid test kits, about nine months old.
4) What are you using to measure salinity, and what is your salinity/specific gravity?
Refractometer, 1.009 specific gravity.
5) How are you mixing your change water, length of time to mix?
I mix five gallons at once, in a five gallon bucket. I put a heater and powerhead in the bucket to mix it well and keep the temperature at tank temperature so there is no tempereature difference when I do the water change. I let the salt mix for 24 hours.
6) Do you have access to a LFS that sells Maracyn Two for saltwater fish?
I just have a chain pet supplies store, and I haven't seen any medications. Mostly some ich medications and lost of ammonia removers, mainly geared for freshwater. I can look to see if they have the Maracyn Two, but like I said the popeye seems to be clearing.

 

[beth]

Are you adding pH buffers to maintain a 8.2 pH? If so, let the pH drop very slowly to 8.0 until the ammonia gets to zero. You can also use Amquel, or similar water detox for ammonia. As mentioned here, if you do that, then you may still continue to get false readings for ammonia. * * o
Lesson the 50% water changes to 20%. Make sure that there is good water movement at water surface, so that there is movement throughout surface, and that good movement is going throughout the tank. You can test this when you add food. If it just sinks to the bottom, then the water is not moving well. If it is blown about before it sinks, then its good.
Use fresh garlic minced and the juices allowed to soak in fish food for only 1 minute before feeding.
Refrain from using nets to capture fish. When time comes to remove the fish from the QT, corral the fish into a ziplock, then move the fish over.
What is the size of your QT?

 

[beth]

I have no idea what those strange marks are on my post above are. Just ignore it...another glitch here I assume.

 

[yannifish]

It is a ten gallon tank.
I used buffer when I first dropped the salinity, and use it in every water change. But I haven't had an issue with pH, so dropping it may be hard.
I'll try to feed some mysis (with garlic) tonight, its hard to say whether she will eat it or not though.
I haven't used a net to capture the fish.
Do you have any ideas about why she is being slow sluggish? What the overall issue is?
What do you think about Joe's idea, bring the salinity back up and put her in the DT, hoping the ich has been killed?

 

[yannifish]

She didn't eat anything. I soak the shrimp in garlic, and put two nice shrimp in there after turning off the filter. I watched her for five minutes, and she didn't touch it.
I don't know what to do. Right now raising the salinity sounds like a good idea. It seems like getting her in the DT is the only thing that will help right now.

 

[beth]

You can put this fish in the display, however, the ich treatment is not complete, so it is risky. Didn't you say she was improved? Can you get Amquel?
Do you have other fish in your display?

 

[yannifish]

She looks better than this morning, yes. But still nowhere near great.
I have two clowns in the DT. It is a 55 gallon, that has been set up for almost two years.
She has been in hypo for two weeks, and I haven't seen any sign of ich. I know it will be risky, but is it more risky to the fish not to put her in the DT?
Would you recommend a small water change tonight, or just let her be?
I've been using Stress Coat, so I think the ammonia is neutralized. How often should I use the Stress Coat?

 

[beth]

Stress coat doesn't neutralize ammonia. The product I suggested does.
If all your fish get ich, then what?
Its your call what to do under these circumstances. A sick fish introduced in to a display with healthy fish? Your call.