Flame Angel died but why??

[aredmon]

I have a 75gal FOWLR. Here is the story.
I got a neon goby Nov. 28th. By the 30th I noticed ich on it so I took it out of the tank. By Dec. 2 my flame angel had the ich so I took him out and put him in a hospital tank by the 4th. The next day I noticed another fish had ich (looked like the start of it anyway) So I took my whole lot of fish out of the tank and put them in qt. This would be all in the qt.
1 flame angel
1 perc. clown
1 domino damsel
1 puple firefish goby
I dropped the salt level to 1.009 with a bunch of small water changes over 48hrs.
All the ich seemed to have left the fish and the goby's start of ich never got a chance to develope. The fish have been in hypo for 1 week now and doing much better.
I had to go x-mas shopping yesterday so I sprinkled a little flake food in the tank, they all came out to eat and looked great. About 3pm my husband calls me and tells me my flame angel was dead on the bottom of the tank. I get home at about 5:30 and he was floating at the top. When I grabbed him to take him out he was as stiff as a board. When I held him by the tail the rest of him stuck straight out in any direction I turned him. He felt as hard as if he were glass. I had a fish die bringing him home from a fish store before and he wasn't hard like that plus he sank and stayed sank. What could have killed my fish?? The ich seemed to have fallen off? Please help!!!
The water in the qt is as this. Amm 0 Nitrites 0 Nitrates 20 ph 8.0 (yesterday Sun.)

 

[af330i]

It sounds like you've read this already but re-read the following link and check out the stages of ich
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/127007/faqs-fish-diseases-treatments-quarantine-health-info#post_914831
Eventhough the visible signs were gone it sounds like the fish still had ich and was in the second stage.
One other thing, if it makes you feel better for some reason I have never been able to keep a flame fish alive for more than a few days and I have no idea why. I am almost ready to give up on that type of fish. I've never had this problem with any other fish I have owned.
BTW it is very strange the fish floated ... of all my fish to die I never had one float, they always sink to the bottom.

 

[aredmon]

I still figured that all the signs of ich were gone so that it was tring to find a place to multiply and was no longer on the fish. So why would the free swimming organisms kill the fish?? Will the other 3 fish be ok?? Souldn't the hypo have kept the ich from killing my flame angel. The flame angel wasn't badly infected. I could count the number of spots on him and it was 10. I am sorry I am asking so many questions but I am mad at myself and I don't want to make any mistakes with my other fish. Thank you for your help!!

 

[aredmon]

BTW I thought the floating was weird too. That is why I asked if anyone thought it may have been something else that killed him??

 

[danedodger]

I put flame angels in the same category with tangs, easily shocked and stressed to the point of death. Was there possibly any signs of aggression from the domino? They're reportedly near the top of the bully list even for damsels. Maybe the damsel was fussing with him over the food?

 

[aredmon]

Out of all the weird things the domino loved the flame angel. He never bothered him. Now he did mess with the other 2 fish a little but never the flame angel. The domino is still pretty small and the angel was bigger than him. The angel had its space and the domino never bothered his territory. I know they are kind of sensitive and I was afraid the move stressed him out but after about 48 hrs of hiding he was back out swimming and eating again. The more the spots disapered the better he started acting. He always swam to the glass when I came up to the tank before he got ich. After he got ich he almost always hid. Once I put him in hypo and the ich started to drop off he started comming out and swimming up to the glass again. Like I said I am stumped he was all :happyfish when I left and dead when I came back. :notsure:

 

[aredmon]

???

 

[hot883]

My only thought would be that the drop in s.g. over 48 did him in. I'm not sure how long you are suppose to take in lowering it, but I would think that could be it. The rest of the fish NEED to stay in hypo for up to 6 weeks to fully kill all the ICH.

 

[aredmon]

Ok. Now I am getting realy upset. My purple firefish goby keeps squeezing himself between a peice of fake decor and the glass and can't get out. I found him like this this morning and let him out and when he swam out he started doing head dives at the bottom of the tank and rubbing him side against the bottom when he did this. What is he doing????? He does not have any visable bumps or spots on him so is he just shaking off the stiffness from being stuck all night or is he headed for the big fishy heaven in the sky?

Please someone help!!!

 

[saltn00b]

they hide when they are stressed/ scared. just let him do his thing he will come out when he is ready. it might be a day or two. dont go and uncover him from his hiding space itll probably stress him more. if he is sick he will either get better or die. if you have done everything to a T, then he should live, but nothing is definite. ich has ways of killing fish when it doesnt appear to be terribly bad cases, or after it dissapears once, it can come back twice as bad and infest internal organs like the gils, which can do any fish in within hours. hopefully next time you will use a QT tank to hold your fish for 4-6 weeks before introducing new ones into your display to avoid these situations.

 

[aredmon]

The Qt is dedinitly staying up for new fish. The place he keeps gettign into he can't get back out of unless he can swimm backward. The glass is directly against one side of him and the plastic on the other side and no outlet the further in he swimms. Just gets tighter and tighter. I was afrait he would kill himself in there.

 

[saltn00b]

i would venture to guess that you might be surprised at how fish can handle themselves in small places. they feel safe in there, and im pretty sure they can swim backwards because they have a darting behavior. just remember they know their body better then you, so they are probably aware of its own spacial limitations. i still stand by what i said.

 

[aredmon]

ok. I will tahke your word for it and leave him alone when he gets in there. I just was very worried because I know they call them dart fish for a reason but this weird little fish has never hid or darted away from me the whole time I have had him. Even at the lfs this one didn't hide he just swam around so it kind of worried me for him to be in such a constricting spot so I will leave him alone..

 

[aredmon]

I stayed up last night to spy on the fish. I almost gave up but as soon as I thought there was no foul play going on (as I had thought) I cought the domino picking a fight with the clown. Then he started on the firefish so it ran and hid. I put a plastic divider in the tank to separate the domino from the rest and this morning the firefish was back out swimming and looking fine. I think my damsel has been the cause of my other fishes stress. What should I do with the domino. I don't want him if he is going to be picking on everybody, I don't think my lfs will take him and I don't want to kill him even though he may have been the cause of the angel death. What to do??

 

[saltn00b]

yes damsels are little fish that think they are in a big fish's body, they are very territorial and can be very aggressive. if you had one in the tank before you added new fish, as with any fish thats territorial you should have rearranged your rocks a little bit, so there were new terretories to be established. but that time has passed, and this guy most likely needs to go. i would say you should set up at least a 10g quarantine tank, and then use the fish to finish the cycle. of course start the cycle with the shrimp as usual but near the end of it, or at the end just put him in the quarantine... just a thought.

 

[aredmon]

I found someone who wants him. They have a larger damsel and were thinking about getting another damsel to put in there. They said they would take him. I am glad I am getting rid of him. Thanks for all your help!!

 

[azocean709]

go to LFS and get your self a copper test. the first flame i got it died in about 2 weeks...all perameters damn perfect...i was told to check for copper....sure enough...i had some good traces of it....a flame cant handle the copper...burns the gills...myaswell let your ammonia peak about 7.

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by aredmon
I have a 75gal FOWLR. Here is the story.
I got a neon goby Nov. 28th. By the 30th I noticed ich on it so I took it out of the tank. By Dec. 2 my flame angel had the ich so I took him out and put him in a hospital tank by the 4th. The next day I noticed another fish had ich (looked like the start of it anyway) So I took my whole lot of fish out of the tank and put them in qt. This would be all in the qt.
1 flame angel
1 perc. clown
1 domino damsel
1 puple firefish goby
I dropped the salt level to 1.009 with a bunch of small water changes over 48hrs.
All the ich seemed to have left the fish and the goby's start of ich never got a chance to develope. The fish have been in hypo for 1 week now and doing much better.
I had to go x-mas shopping yesterday so I sprinkled a little flake food in the tank, they all came out to eat and looked great. About 3pm my husband calls me and tells me my flame angel was dead on the bottom of the tank. I get home at about 5:30 and he was floating at the top. When I grabbed him to take him out he was as stiff as a board. When I held him by the tail the rest of him stuck straight out in any direction I turned him. He felt as hard as if he were glass. I had a fish die bringing him home from a fish store before and he wasn't hard like that plus he sank and stayed sank. What could have killed my fish?? The ich seemed to have fallen off? Please help!!!
The water in the qt is as this. Amm 0 Nitrites 0 Nitrates 20 ph 8.0 (yesterday Sun.)

Your only feeding them flake foods? You should be feeding them high quality foods with added garlic preferred! You need to boost up their immune system. That's probably what caused your angel to die is secondary infection plus insufficient nutrient. Try stuffs like Formula 2, it works great. Don't just feed them flake foods, it's not good enough.

:happyfish

 

[aredmon]

No I don't just feed them flake food. I switch up what I give them. Flake, frozen brine, or this formula 1 frozen food (I think it is called formula 1) It is a special blend of food desingned for dwarf angels. I am sorry if I led you to beleive I only feed them flake. I will test for the copper. I don't think I have any though. I use the same RO sourse for all my tanks and I know inverts cannot tollerate copper and my display with all the inverts is doing great. But I will try.

 

[saltn00b]

brine shrimp is not nutritious. it is like fish popcorn. mysis shrimp is good though.