Flow rate for a UV please

portugee

Member
Ive heard super slow for maximum exposure. 100-200 gph or less this method would use a small powerhead.
Ive heard 30 gph per watt or less, I could use my fluval and a 15-25 watt uv.
Ive heard some uv's rated at huge flow rates like 700+gph and the multiple pass is better theory comes in to play.
I've heard most oppinions on pro's and con's of uv's. I'm comfortable with the con's and money is not a concern.
What flow rate do you feel will work the best? Does anyone have any knowledge or done research on actual kill rate.
Any suggestions on brand?
Thanks, :confused:
 

portugee

Member
I'de like this setup to kill protozoa. Thanks for the equation, got any rule of thumb in laymans terms ( I bet you were waiting for that).
Anthem, I thought I read one of your posts with a bare bottom tank and UV with great kill rates. Was that you?
 

portugee

Member
Quit teasing me Ed.
Lets run this thing of my fluval 404 rated at 340 gph.
To kill protozoa do I need the 500 watt or the 1000?
Joel
 

portugee

Member
Thank Ed, I get the picture. I think the 40 watt will do nicely since 340gph is max out-put of my canister. Im sure it flows less packed with carbon.
I know it wont be a cure all but I feel it's not fair to stick fish in a box and not do something about protozoa multiplication.
I've got to go to some appointments, thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
Joel
 

johnny.d.s

Member

Originally posted by anthem
My 'rule of thumb' which is accurate to where I want to be in terms of uWSec/cm2 is approx watts x 8 = desired gph. So if you want to use a 340gph, then divide that by 8 (a hair above 40ish).
That's not the only factor though. That is just kill rate into the unit. If you want control of your tank, you're going to need to factor the flow rate through your tank to get a reasonably good assumption that everything through the tank is going to go through that UV at some point in time. This means no dead spots, heavy heavy flow through the tank. So, using your 340gph, for protozoa success, I would say 12-15x. - equating to a tank size of 20-30 gallons or so - and thats only with a bare bottom tank.
See how futile it is with UV. UV works as a plus, just not as the primary method. Use diligent quarantine, it works much better.
Ed

:rolleyes:
I don't know where you get your info?
I have a 25w Aqua Ultraviolet on my 220 it is rated for 1200gph. Their UV lamps last 14 months and are the most effective on the market. These UV sterilizers have flow rates that are approximately 3 times that of other UV sterilizers, and will efficiently eliminate bacteria, protozoa and control fish disease.
The multiple pass is the better theory and you don't want to kill everything in the tank. ((QUOTE-12-15x. - equating to a tank size of 20-30 gallons or so - and thats only with a bare bottom tank)) if you want to kill everything including the good bacteria,pods and stuff!!!
((QUOTE-The problem is that my definition of small tank is like a 20/30 gallon tank, and a UV for that would be a 57 or 114/120 W size.)) Your NUTS a 9w on a 20g or 30g would be enough!!!
 

portugee

Member
Anthem,
If your still checking on this thread.
In your oppinion will a 40 watt UV give me effective kill rates at 340 max gph ( probably lower ) ? I have read your responses over again and it seems someone would need wattage in the hundreds to get protozoa in a 90 gal with lots of rock and cc.
Joel
 

almarktool

Member
port,
i called aqua ultra viloet when i wanted to set up my tank with a u/v and from what i heard and read here is my findings in order to get 100% kill rate every bit of water going from your sump to the tank should be run through a u/v so that means / from what aqua u/v told me u really need to pick your u/v out to match your return pump and put it inline between the sump and the tank in my case for a 72 gallon tank ( size does not matter here ) i am using a mag drive 12 ( this is the size that matters ) 1200 gph i needed to use the 57 watt u/v, just like on my 200 gallon which has 2 iwaki md 55 return pumps pushing 1050 gph, i needed to use 2 57 watt u/v's one for each pump
doing it this way insures that 100% of your water is passing the u/v which will give u the most effective kill rate, just a note i had prev had a 15 watt onmy 72 since took it off 2 months ago did not have room for the 57 watt model and never bothered to hook one up , and have decided not to hook one up on 200 , since them my coralin growth on my lr has doubled and my mandrian is nice and plump , conclusion form me they kill to much good,
sorry so long,
Mark
 
Not really sure what this will generate, BUT when I bought my tank it have a UV with it and a power head with 1200gph. The return from the UV was just like another powerhead. A guy I know said the water was probably moving a bit to fast to be very effective, so I did exactly what you are talking about. I hooked my Fluval 404 up to the UV. The water leaves much slower than before, but still has moderate flow. I'm not sure if the UV is even doing anything for me, but waster not want not. Now that 1200gph power circulates the h$ll out of the tank. Just my $0.02. If anyone has a way of testing what my UV kills (or doesn't) let me know. I have even been told that the UV isn't really worth the $$$ for saltwater with alot of LR and LS. But mine was FREE so, I use it.
 

johnny.d.s

Member

Originally posted by anthem
Johnny, back up your numbers with protozoa exposure/kills. When you have it, come back and then we'll discuss.
Unless you have a clue of what you're talking about in terms of exposure, you're the nut throwing out numbers. Mine are based on protozoa kills, yours are based on unabashed manufactur's marketing. Try getting your exposure rates and then determine where your flow rate needs to be.
Don't hand be brand names on UV. Aqua UV makes good products, but they aren't "3x" more effective than other brands. Why don't you back that up. There might be some minor flow-rate differentials between manufacturers, but nothing on the scalar value you're claiming. I'd guarantee they won't back up watts to flow rating and claim 3x advantage over others. It's a simple equation - its exposure time - PERIOD.
In terms of protozoa kills, it isn't safe to bet on multiple pass. It's a real poor thing to base your flow's on.
Your next argument is also full of holes. It is a simple equation of exposure times - whether you factor multiple passes or not. Even if protozoa goes through multiple times, your bacteria, etc will do the same. And bacteria kill exposure is MUCH MUCH less than protozoa kill. Besides, there really is no beneficial bacteria that you need to keep alive in a free floating stage. Pod's are another overrated issue - they'll get to your tank either way and the tank inhabitants will eat it either way. Nuked via UV or nuked via pump shear is irrelevant.
So, I know where I get my info. I'm curious where you get yours. ..
Ed

Portugee you will need a 3000w UV if you listen to anthem :rolleyes:
I have a 25w on a fluval 404 and it helps. I had fish with ich they recovered and the ich didn't spread to all the fish in the same tank. UV kills the good too so don't go to big.
 

portugee

Member
I'm not taking sides here but it does seem that Anthem has some actual scientific equations of exposure times for protozoa kills and seems to have done some research to back it up.
He's recommended a 40 watt for 340 gph of flow, thats not obscene wattage for the units that are available today.
But why would I need to flow my tank 12-15 times an hour through a UV? I meen how fast can protozoa multiply?
If I use 340gph at acceptable watts for protozoa kills in a 90 gal. tank thats cycling my tank 3+ times an hour. I've got 6 270gph powerheads working so no dead spots.
So even if some water gets processed twice and some water gets skipped I should at minimum be cycling all of the water once an hour, being conservative. Thats 24 times a day. Can they multiply quicker than that?
How do you test protozoa kills, with a microscope?
 

johnny.d.s

Member
What exactly is UV sterilization? It's actually a very simple process for removing (referred to as filtering) unwanted free floating microscopic water borne bacteria, parasitic, fungal, viral, algae, and other unfriendly pathogens out of aquarium water by exposing it to high intensity ultra-violet (UV) light. UV light has the ability to effect the function of living cells by altering the structure of the cells nuclear material, or DNA. The end result is the organisms die off, eradicating your aquarium water of these unwanted nuisances.
But, in addition to killing beasties, UV sterilizers also, well,
sterilize the water. They do this by producing ozone if they
receive oxygen-rich water. The ozone is produced in much smaller
amounts than that produced by an Ozone generator, but it is enough
to clean the water and increase Redox potential. This process is
very similar to that keeps an Ozone layer over the earth. UV light
strikes Oxygen molecules and Ozone, O3, is produced, which is highly
reactive. This Ozone can then bond with pollutants and neutralize
them (much simplification done here). As for the Ozone over the earth,
the same amount is being produced all the time, it's just the Chlorine
now exists in the layer in the form of CFC's, and much of the Ozone
bonds quickly with the CFC's instead of other pollutants, thus
sort of depleting the layer, but it is much more complex.
Granted, a sterilizer is not an essential part of equipment -- if you
exercise good quarantine practice before introducing livestock (including
live rock!), you really don't need it. It's just a handy thing to have as
a back up against ick (in case there would ever be a temperature shift or
some other catastrophe).
The general consensus is that an aquarist that has a well maintained and uncrowded aquarium, as well as follows good quarantine procedures when introducing new specimens to their system, a UV light filter is not necessary. For those that may be deciding on whether a UV light filter should be added or not, here are some other points to consider.
Most effective when run 24/7.
Most effective if the water is clear.
Most effective if bulb is new, or replaced regularly (at least every 6-8 months).
Most effective if the UV light penetrates less than one inch of water.
Effectiveness can be hindered if the water passes to fast past the bulb. Most effective if the exposure time of the water to the UV light is longer than one second.
The effectiveness of UV light can be hindered if there is light blockage, i.e. a salt encrusted bulb.
It can help to prevent future water borne pathogen reoccurrences, once the initial problem as been completely eradicated from the aquarium.
UV light not only kills unwanted organisms, but beneficial ones as well.
Because it can destroy beneficial microscopic organisms that some reef tank inhabitants may depend on as a food source, UV light should not be run during feeding time.
It only destroys organisms that are free floating IN the water as it passed by the UV light, i.e. it will NOT get rid of an ich infestation that is already ON fish, or cure a bacterial disease fish may have.
Should never be run when treating with any drugs or medications.
UV can also alter the structure of some dissolved chemical compounds.
UV light can be damaging to the human eye, so DO NOT look into the bulb.
Always unplug the unit when working on it to prevent possible shock if it breaks or gets wet.
UV can also alter the structure of some dissolved chemical compounds, so you do not want to run your UV light filter when treating your aquarium with any drug or chemical medication. Because many of the inhabitants of a reef system are dependent on good types of micro-organisms for food sources, you may not want to run a UV filter in this type of aquarium.
To be effective, UV Sterilization (UVS) must expose the germs to high enough
light intensity for a long enough period of time. Martin Moe cites 35,000
to 100,000 microwatts per second per square centimeter as the norm. The
most effective UV light is the high energy UV(C) light roughly at the
wavelength of 250 Angstrom.
 

johnny.d.s

Member

Originally posted by anthem
Couldn't do it, huh ? Common reaction to attack the person when you can't handle the issues. . . .
Ed

YOU WIN
I just don't care :p
 

wamp

Active Member
Johnny.D.S,
I care. I find all of anthems post informative. Just don't go after him with out hard facts that are your own.. I too learned the hard way. The man knows his stuff. We can all learn alot from him and others with his experience.
 

shadow678

Member
Hey Ed,
On a side note, if you are looking for good high-flow, true powerheads, have you looked into the MagDrive 12, 18, or 24? They are each rated 1200, 1800, and 2400 gph respectively, and can be run inline or sumberged, either way. They are rather large, especially with the prefilter attached, but put out a LOT of water, and are very resistant to head pressure. I have a MD9.5(950gph), and this thing kicks some serious tail. Just thought I'd offer. :)
 

surfnturf

Member
Johnny D.S. you're embarassing the state of Wisconsin, no wonder why everyone thinks we just stare at bugzappers and tip over cows, BTW have you seen the bubbler:p :D :D
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Ok, Johnny got cauht plagiarizing, which is embarassing enough. Lets not hit him over the head 20 times with it. The point's been made.
 
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