Fluidized bed filters as a phosphate sponge

[elpezgrande]

Steve Weast, owner of the most beautiful home aquarium most of us will ever see, recently let us know that he uses a Fluidized Bed Filter for handling excess phosphates. Instead of using traditional FBF media (apparently usually sand or quartz), he used iron to soak up phosphates. I'm considering doing this hoping to be rid of nuisance algae once and for all, but I have a few questions.
1) Will an FBF with iron media be significantly better as a phosphate sponge than if I used iron media in my AquaClear 200 filter, or just put a mesh bag of iron media in a high flow area of my tank?
2) If I use an FBF with iron media, will it also provide biologic filtration, or will bacteria not grow in iron media? If bacteria will grow in the iron media, should I be concerned about a potential cycle associated with adding an FBF?
For the curious who came into this thread looking for info on FBF's:
1) FBF's provide biologic filtration. They force the water through a fine, concentrated media which provides a very high amount of surface area for bacteria to grow. It's much like having a large sand bed in a small container hooked up to your tank.
2) They are realatively inexpensive and you can find many models for $45 - $75 online
3) They have a small footprint, usually only 3 - 5 inches thick/deep so they can easily fit out of sight between many of our tanks and the wall.
Some models you can find online are:
PentAir Rainbow Lifeguard Fluidized Bed Filter
Red Sea Merlin and Merlin Plus
Quicksand Fluidized Bed Filter
Phosban Reactor
If you're interested in seeing the most beautiful home aquarium you'll likely ever see

https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/88577/500-gal-reef-converted-to-850gal-reef

 

[squidd]

The "Phosphate and Silacate Magnet" is ferric oxyhydroxide and in the instructions for use they say to NOT place in a fluidized bed chamber as the particles will not stay intact under constant abrasion.
I placed mine in a mesh bag and run it in a "up draft" canister filter that is empty and used for extra circulation and carbon from time to time. I leave the "magnet" in all the time and "fluff" the bag every couple weeks to expose new media.
FWIW

 

[shouse]

Hi i have a 75g and I'm doing a total overhaul on my system very soon and am also considering using Steve's methods. I have a Fluval canister filter already but what your saying is i'm going to need to buy a FBF anyways right? Along with that i intend to make my sand bed 1", add a very nice protein skimmer and add a sump with more current to my tank. I'm hoping doing all of this will make my system run smoothly. If i'm correct Steve said that the FBF with the iron media will do a whole lot better job filtering out phosphates than a fuge will ever do. I also dont have a lot of space for a fuge. If anyone has any thoughts on this or something i might be missing feel free to jump in. thanks.

 

[squidd]

I use both...

 

[steveweast]

It has been my experience (and many,many other reefers) that the iron based phosphate removers...namely Phosban and Rowaphos.. really need to be run in a fluidized filter. Otherwise, the media will begin to solidify and form a solid brick. It has been many other reefer's experience (I have not tried this) that running the media in a conventional filter canister will also not work too well.... as again, the media will clump. The fluidized bed gently keeps the media in complete suspension and constantly moving... preventing any clumping and allowing full contact. Another advantage of the fluidized beds is that they control an otherwise very messy media....Rowaphos and Phosban are very dirty and difficult to keep from creating a huge brownish/reddish cloud from forming in the tank. The fluidized reactors (when the proper flow is going through them) contains all the particles...large and small...in the filter....well, at least my Deltec does...I have no experience with the other models....but, I will say that I once tried Rowaphos in a mesh bag in the sump....what a mess...it took two days for cloudiness to subside and the mesh bag was a solid brick in two weeks.
As for which is more effective...a refugium or a reactor...I guess that would depend on the size of each....but, in general, a reactor permanetely will lock up the phosphate...whereas, the macro algae can always crash and release its phosphate load. The refugium will soak up resources (light and space).... whereas, the reactor requires little space and no light. It is for these reasons that I switched over to a phosphate reactor...since my primary reason for a refugium was for nutrient export. I'm just going to convert the refugium into a second tank and keep things that wouldn't be appropriate for the main tank.....

 

[shouse]

Sorry about that
Steve, you said that you were planning on breaking down your fuge andjust using it for other means. Do you mean for things that are not appropriate for your DT as in protein skimmers, heaters, and adding chemicals and stuff like that? I plan on running a sump for all that stuff (heater, protein skimmer, etc) . The sump would also add to the current as well which u said was a big part. Is This is all you had intended for the second tank or am i missing something? thanks
P.S. do u know where to find a deltec filter. most of us here are having no success finding one online.

 

[steveweast]

Shouse...I'm having a hard time deciphering what you're asking above....I think a few words are missing here and there...could you restate it ??

 

[attml]

Steve,
I would also like to know where you are finding the Deltec Fluidized Filters? Mike Paletta recently spoke at one of our local aquarium club meetings and was praising the fluidized filters very highly. If you know of a suplier I would apprecaite it!! attml@yahoo.com

 

[steveweast]

attml...YGM with their website...

 

[sparky0028]

I have been following this thread and I have a question. I understand the phosphate issue but i thought the purpose of the fuge was also to reduce nitrates in the system.

 

[daniel411]

Originally posted by steveweast
attml...YGM with their website...
Steve or Attml,
I'd be interested in that website also, if you don't mind. The only place I found it online and available was in england.
neversummer411@yahooREMOVE.com
just remove the REMOVE
Thanks

 

[birdy]

I am also wondering about nitrate removal.

 

[shouse]

also be interested in the website, thanks.
peteopp@hotmail.com
I also fixed my post steve so hopefully u can understand what i'm asking.

 

[steveweast]

Shouse... what I meant was that I feel that my refugium (which is still a refugium right now and is seperate from my sump) is now not needed....so, I think that I will still have it running...but, not as a refugium...but rather, as another tank that will house critters that otherwise would not be appropriate for my main display...like frogfish or seahorses, or maybe a cuttlefish...something like that.
As for nitrates... they are of concern for sure... but, in most cases, these can be broken down within the anoxic zones inside of the liverock...if you have enough liverock, you shouldn't have a nitrate problem ( my tank has always tested zero for nitrate). This, coupled with the regiment and husbandry to reduce phosphates will also help reduce the waste that ends as nitrate. I feel that phosphate is more of a problem than nitrate... with nitrate getting blamed for problems that are probably caused by phosphate...like hair algae.
Deltec is just gearing up their sales in the US and as a result have just set up their website. They are distributing from Florida. I don't know how to mass distribute this site without violating the rules of this board...so, hopfully the few that I get the address to will give it to others that may be interested.