Fluval 404: need help on filtering materials

bluedragon

New Member
I just got a Fluval 404 and I was wondering what type of filtering media I should use in order to maximize my saltwater quality. If anyone has any recommendations of the product/name and what it does, I would greatly appreciate it.
 

blueberryboomer

Active Member
What are you using this for? Bio or Mechanical? I would not use it for a bio, canaster and wet dry filters are nitrate factorys. The best bio filter is 1 1/2 lbs per gal of live rock & 4-5in live sand bed.
The fluval is awesome for a mechanical filter, I use coconut carbon, polyfiber and nitrate sponge in ours.(you need to remove polyfiber every 1week if possible, and the nitrate sponge every 3-6 months, replace 1/2 of media)(nitrate sponge is actualy small little rocks, not real sponge) Hope this help. Lisa :D
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, most filter media used in canisters will start biological filtration within 2 wks of use which in turn means you'll be manufacturing nitrates. I have a 404 too and right now I'm basically going to try it out as a carbon filter for when I want to use carbon; otherwise I'll use it empty to power my UV. Additionally, any media you put in a canister will, within 2 weeks, become a biological filter, including carbon, nitrate sponge, filter pads, floss, etc., which you want to avoid.
I'd suggest that, if you haven't unpacted it yet, you return it. You can use a smaller canister to do carbon filtration and, even with that, you will want to either change out the carbon every 2 wks, or remove the carbon altogether until you need it. Now, I know people put LS and LR in the canister, but I don't see how LR will live very well in a dark canister, and the grains of LS are so miniscule that I'd think you run into a problem clogging up the motor in the canister. Better to put what little LS and LR you can put into a canister, directly into your tank or sump [if you have one]. Canisters, I believe, are virtually obsolete for the marine hobby, except, as I said, you can run carbon thru them.
[ May 11, 2001: Message edited by: Beth ]
 

bluedragon

New Member
Well... it CLAIMS to be a mechanical and biological so I was hoping it would do both. I do have some live rock but I believe it's cured so I don't think there are any live creatures in it (or so it seems). Live sand I have not tried yet as I am reluctant to introduce them to my tank without cycling it with everything to not stress my fish. So basically, I was looking for a way to customize my canister so that it would help do both mech. and bio. filtration for now since my tank has only been up for a month.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, all canisters can be biological and mechanical. The point is, that when you have lots of oxgenated water flowing thru media the "biological" filtration becomes a nitrate factory.
 

bluedragon

New Member
So I should use the sponge, carbon, and bio balls? Also, does adding the ammonia chips help? Which brand is best to use since there are so many out there?
This may be off the subject but how do you set up live rock and live sand (for additional biological filtering) with real 'live' creatures living in them? If it's cured then how do you add the 'live' animals?
Thank you Lisa and Beth for your responses.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I guess what I'm trying to get across is that the canister itself is a nitrate factory and anything you put in it will produce nitrates if left in it for more than 2 weeks. Bottom line, its better not to use a canister, unless you want to use it for carbon filtration only, and then only use the carbon for 2 wks at at a time because if you leave it in the canister it will become a nitrate factory.
When you get LR it has the biology and sometimes even creatures in it--cured or not. LS has biology and you add the creatures to keep the sand in good filtering mode. Once you have the LR and LS, you cultivate it via lighting, quality water conditions and live creatures that you add to your tank.
 
There seems to be a little misunderstanding about live rock in this thread. Live rock should have critters, curing is not designed to rid it of the organisms that perform the biological filtration.
I would also check but I think :confused: the ammonia chips are only for freshwater but I am not sure - anyone have any info on that point?
I have a Fluval 304 and am using it for mechanical filtration and to get copper out of the tank via carbon. Also provides some good current in the tank.
BlueDragon - If you haven't already done so, youmight want to get a copy of Robert Fenner's book The Contientious Marine Aquarist and Martin Moe's The Marine Aquarium Handbook - Beginner to Breeder - both have really good explanations of what Beth is talking about.
Good luck!
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Cayman, right on all counts. Additionally, the ammonia chips are for freshwater, and useless for the marine hobby--so don't waste your money. If you use the canister, use it in the limited fashion that Cayman is using it. It is a very good peice of equiptment when used for these purposes.
BTW: The book by fenner, is a very good book for newbies---but, remember, a published book is already 2 yrs old by the time it hits the shelves, thus, some material may be a tad dated, and, there have certainly been innovations since any book has been written and gets onto the book racks. Exploration of the web is great, as long as you read and learn from many sources, rather than relying upon any one's particular opinion....except my opinion, of course, which is always right!--jk.
:D
 
Beth - thanks for filling in on my input, I truly do value your opinions.
Re: Fenner's book, yes it is getting dated, what do you recommend for more current resources? I prefer to learn by research rather than killing innocent fish.
Thanks,
Steve
 

bluedragon

New Member
I looked at some ammonia chips today and most of them said freshwater only. But there was one brand, Petcetopia (I think), that said for fresh and salt... so I dunno. But anyhow, I was hoping the canister of course wouldn't overtake the whole biological filtration but only in part as help to other forms, i.e. live rock. Thanks for the information though. I'll make sure to check out that book, although it's pretty hard to find a good up to date book like you pointed out Beth. And besides, books don't tell everything, forums do... hehehe... Thanks to all and CaymanLovers for your help. :D
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
The web is pretty much what I use now, for the reasons I stated. It is the most current. Of course, the info here is not compact into one easily accessable location as is a book, but, hey, who said this hobby is easy? It ain't easy, but it is facinating and beautiful.
Also, for a new person coming into the hobby, I would recommend fenner. There is a alot of excellent, thought provocking info in that book, the pics are great and the details on various fishes is excellent. If you're like me and have to go elsewhere to get anything, try amazon.com for books....that's where I got mine!
Good Luck.
 

captain_karma

New Member
I've been useing two Fluval 304's in a 90 gal. for the life of my tank (5 months). I also have about 2" of Live Sand, and just over 25 lbs. of Live Rock (getting more). I have yet to see my nitrates go up over 10 ppm. except at the end of my first cycle when it was at about 25ppm. I've been useing carbon in the bottom, bio. max in the middle, and poly fiber in the top. That mix seems to be keeping everything fairly clean and level.
 
i dont know if anyone has ever heard of this but my parents have it on there fluval 404 for there 46 gallon bow front, its called "BIOLOGICAL NOODLES" my guess is that its like bio balls
 

bluedragon

New Member
I ordered the Fluval 404 so I am not sure how many compartments it will hold. I will try what you guys recommend as far the filtering materials. I hope everything will work out biologically and mechanically. I'll also try to get ahold of some live sand and add a little more rocks.
Thanks for the input captain_karma and tanker newbie. :D
 

captain_karma

New Member
I think the 404 is the same as my 304s, but with larger compartments, and higher flow rate. On changing the media. I put in new carbon monthly when I water change, change about half of the poly fill twice a month, and havn't changed the bio max yet. Fluval suggests 1/2 change every 6 months. My filters came with the carbon and bio max. I had to go to the LFS to get poly fill.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
404 has 4 large stackable media compartments, and each compartment is divided in half, so really, you have 8 compartments.
 

jacques

Member
I didn't have any problems with my Fluval 404 either until recently. I hit the 9 month mark and my nitrates went through the roof! BEWARE!!! I finally took it off and added some more live rock. The tank is already looking better. I'll check the nitrates tonight. Good luck,
:D
 

bluedragon

New Member
Was that because you didn't change the materials that cultivated the nitrates or because the Fluval 404 collected them so fast? :eek:
 
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