Foodshape's 1st Time SW Build

[foodshape]

Hi folks,
Rather than starting a new thread for each question I come up with or hijacking others' threads I figured I may as well start a 'build' thread (although the way this project has gone so far this one will be plodding along slowly...)
Background: I've been keeping freshwater for decades (currently with a couple of african cichlid tanks). I decided late last year to finally give SW a try as well (it's always been a question of when, not if). I'd like it to be a 75g reef tank, ultimately. Here's what I've done/gotten so far:

• 
  Read a lot (Fenner's "Conscientious Marine Aquarist" cover-to-cover + plenty of online stuff + working my way through Borneman's "Aquarium Corals".)
• 
  Have the tank (75g reef ready).
• 
  RO/DI unit is on order. Any month now.
  
  
  Skimmer should arrive later this week (Vertex Omega 150); perhaps a bit odd getting this piece of equipment at this stage, but I had hoped (in vain) to have it in time to ensure the stand I'm building is tall enough for it.
  Finally,

• after much frustrating delay, got started on the stand yesterday. Worked on it some more today. It is structurally complete - now I just need to do the cosmetic stuff. Couldn't wait for the skimmer - long story, anyhow the clearance inside the stand is 25.75". The skimmer is supposed to be 21.75" so shouldn't be a problem there... whether that leaves me room for a neck cleaner I don't know (I could always cut a hole in the top of the stand to eek out another inch if that makes the difference).

This brings me to my first question in this thread... the return pump. The bulkhead restricts the overflow drain to 1" internal diameter. I'm planning to layout the sump so that the return pump, if possible, is directly beneath the return hole, so that the only bend is the 90 degree bend at the top of the return. The choke point in the return flow has a 1/2" internal diameter. How powerful a pump to get? I've always liked Eheim gear for the quietness and durability of the motors and don't mind the premium price for that - the question is whether a 1260 would be enough? too much? Head height will be a shade under 4', before factoring in the 90 degree bend.
I'll put some pics up as soon as there is anything worth showing...
Thanks, Paul.

 

[snakeblitz33]

IS the return bulkhead 1/2"? Most standard reef ready tanks that have a 1" drain bulkhead actually have a 3/4" return. I've never heard of a glass company restricting flow that much in a return pipe that has a corrosponding 1" drain. I don't know. Check it out to make absolutely sure your positive on the size of the return plumbing.
Eheims are great little hobby pumps. They are quiet and they don't transfer a whole lot of heat to the water (from what I have heard). However, I go by the rule of thumb that a pump gets as hot as the watts that it uses. So, a 70w pump is like having a 70w heater turned on all the time. Eheims use slightly less watts than Mag Drives (compare 68w of the eheim to a 70w Mag 7) and then take the cost of the Eheim: $129.99 vs. the Mag drive 7: $84.99 the difference is very slight and maybe you will get the difference back over the course of the next ten to 15 years.
Mag drive pumps (for you the Mag 7 would work wonderfully) are a good choice for hobby pumps because they are durable, you can easily buy spare parts and they usually last for a decade with the same impeller. Put another impeller in it and it will last for another ten years. But, ultimately the pump decision is up to you.
If you want to also look into another brand, try Sicce pumps... those are top quality hobby pumps. Also, if you have the money, Red Dragon is perhaps about as good as they come.
Lets start seeing some pics of your build progress!

 

[foodshape]

Thanks for the reply!
I checked and the exterior diameter of the return bulkhead is 3/4", ******** diameter about 5/8". The 1/2" restriction I'm referring to is an articulated plastic thing that attaches to the elbow at the top to route the return water past the overflow back into the tank. I suppose I can easily replace that bit with something diy. Come to think of it maybe I should look into replacing the bulkheads as well? This is Deep Blue and since picking up the tank (in a post-Xmas sale) I've gathered that the supplied bulkheads are not very good. The holes for the overflow and return are 2" and 1.5" respectively. Can I find better (and larger ******** diameter) bulkheads for those hole sizes?
As for pics, not much to show yet but here is the basic 'wood box'. Still need to cut some holes for the plumbing, electrical & ventilation, then time to spruce it up, (finishing ply, moldings, doors, stain, etc.) So far I'm please with how level and square it turned out, and how strong it looks & feels. The vertical 2x4s protude 1/2" below the rest of it. That gives me only 4 shim points to worry about on my uneven basement floor, but it's also low enough that if there does turn out to be an issue with unwanted flexing in the top front I can slap in a center post and shim the support to the floor easily. I'd really rather not have a center post but it's always good to have a plan B - and if need be I could even make a removable one.

On the question of rigidity obviously the front span is the key area of concern with no center post; for a preliminary assessment of how well the design worked out I did a simple test using a length of wood cut precisely to fit vertically in the front, so that it just fits between the upper and lower plywood fascia. I then parked my 185 lb self centered on the front edge of the stand to see if the piece of wood would still fit in. Almost. As best as I can measure there is about 1mm of flex in the front center with 185 lbs concentrated on it. Considering the weight of an 800 lb full aquarium would be distributed evenly around the 4 edges I'm hoping even that bit of flex won't occur, but I'll make sure to check when I get around to doing a test fill.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I have a 75g tank as well... I built my stand out of 2x6" wood... (Granted, I could have done better if I wasn't in a rush.) A 75g tank weighs approximately 615 pounds minus the water displacement of the rock and sand. So, about 750 or so pounds. Not too bad, really. When the weight of the tank equals out, you won't have to worry about flexing at all in that one two by four. Nothing to worry about what-so-ever. This is coming from a guy who has built at least 60 stands.
You're talking about the rainbow locline when you are referring to the 1/2" huh? Well, you can replace it with an actual 3/4" rainbow locline and be done with it... instead of putting some ugly PVC in your tank for a return line (which I have done before) While you are at it, look into Durso style overflows... they run really quiet once you get them tuned in. If you pair it with the proper return pump, you won't have to worry about noise at all.
Chosen a return pump just yet? What about your lighting? What are you going to keep?

 

[foodshape]

That is great to hear regarding the stand, very reassuring, thank you!
The kit that came with the tank does appear to be a durso style setup; the only thing I believe that was not included would be the piece of airline to stick in the little hole... I'll look into the larger 'locline', thanks.
Re the return pump, I hear Red Dragon's are fantastic, but I think they're just a little over the top price-wise for me. How is the noise level of the Mag7 vs the Eheim 1260?
For lighting, actually I got that as well, sort of... I went a little nuts at that post-Xmas sale and picked up a 48" Deep Blue SolarFlare DX at $100 off... 48 3W LEDs, looked great in the store. Pretty quiet, seem to run cool enough, and very bright. Not too many Customer reviews out for these on the web and those that I've seen have been mixed - some good, some bad, but none based on any real experience with them from what I can tell... oh well, if they don't end up working well for corals they'll become the lighting upgrade I've always wanted for my 28" tall Malawi tank; they are very bright and will reach to the bottom of that quite well, though I might have to diffuse the light a bit to illuminate the whole 6' length of that tank.
Re what I plan to keep that's still a bit up in the air. I do want to keep corals, possibly including sps, but a flame angel is also high on my wish list. I know Centropyge can be risky with corals, I haven't decided on that yet. A royal gramma is a definite candidate though. Not very original choices I suppose, but then this is all new to me so nothing is boring! I figure there's still plenty of time to decide on other fish though, as well as inverts. I'll start focussing more on coral selection & placement once the tank's been running for some time. The goal of this tank is balanced diversity (corals, fish & inverts) - not seeing how many fish I can stuff into it.

 

[snakeblitz33]

The noise level of the Mag 7 isn't that bad, honestly. I can't really tell that mine is running at all. The sound of the overflow is noisier than the return pump, honestly. I had an eheim pump at one point, and for the price I didn't feel like it was all that special. But, that's just my opinion. There are more people on the boards that have had better experiences than I with it. I just know that if I want durability and stability, I'll buy Mag Drives. If I want slightly less electrical consumption and slightly less heat in the water, I'll try a different pump.
Sounds like you have put thought into your system. Can't wait for more pictures. Keep it coming!

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/394612/foodshapes-1st-time-sw-build#post_3512287
The noise level of the Mag 7 isn't that bad, honestly. I can't really tell that mine is running at all. The sound of the overflow is noisier than the return pump, honestly. I had an eheim pump at one point, and for the price I didn't feel like it was all that special. But, that's just my opinion. There are more people on the boards that have had better experiences than I with it. I just know that if I want durability and stability, I'll buy Mag Drives. If I want slightly less electrical consumption and slightly less heat in the water, I'll try a different pump.
Sounds like you have put thought into your system. Can't wait for more pictures. Keep it coming!
Agree with Seth here....Really comes down to what your willing to spend.....Eheim excellent pump, less heat and electric over Mags....I'd put my money any day on the Eheim as far as longevity over a Mag, but can I honestly justify the cost difference between the 2.....Not really......
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodshape http:///t/394612/foodshapes-1st-time-sw-build#post_3512241
Hi folks,
Rather than starting a new thread for each question I come up with or hijacking others' threads I figured I may as well start a 'build' thread (although the way this project has gone so far this one will be plodding along slowly...)
Background: I've been keeping freshwater for decades (currently with a couple of african cichlid tanks). I decided late last year to finally give SW a try as well (it's always been a question of when, not if). I'd like it to be a 75g reef tank, ultimately. Here's what I've done/gotten so far:

• 
  Read a lot (Fenner's "Conscientious Marine Aquarist" cover-to-cover + plenty of online stuff + working my way through Borneman's "Aquarium Corals".)
• 
  Have the tank (75g reef ready).
• 
  RO/DI unit is on order. Any month now.
  
  
  Skimmer should arrive later this week (Vertex Omega 150); perhaps a bit odd getting this piece of equipment at this stage, but I had hoped (in vain) to have it in time to ensure the stand I'm building is tall enough for it.
  Finally,

• after much frustrating delay, got started on the stand yesterday. Worked on it some more today. It is structurally complete - now I just need to do the cosmetic stuff. Couldn't wait for the skimmer - long story, anyhow the clearance inside the stand is 25.75". The skimmer is supposed to be 21.75" so shouldn't be a problem there... whether that leaves me room for a neck cleaner I don't know (I could always cut a hole in the top of the stand to eek out another inch if that makes the difference).

This brings me to my first question in this thread... the return pump. The bulkhead restricts the overflow drain to 1" internal diameter. I'm planning to layout the sump so that the return pump, if possible, is directly beneath the return hole, so that the only bend is the 90 degree bend at the top of the return. The choke point in the return flow has a 1/2" internal diameter. How powerful a pump to get? I've always liked Eheim gear for the quietness and durability of the motors and don't mind the premium price for that - the question is whether a 1260 would be enough? too much? Head height will be a shade under 4', before factoring in the 90 degree bend.
I'll put some pics up as soon as there is anything worth showing...
Thanks, Paul.
Skimmer choice is excellent......As far as your plumbing....Is that standard 1/2"......Definitely need to open that 1/2" up that is so restrictive IMHO.....I'd opt for the 1260 or worse case the 1262 if you can find them.....Them pump can always be valved off to feed other equipment as well.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/394612/foodshapes-1st-time-sw-build#post_3512250
IS the return bulkhead 1/2"? Most standard reef ready tanks that have a 1" drain bulkhead actually have a 3/4" return. I've never heard of a glass company restricting flow that much in a return pipe that has a corrosponding 1" drain. I don't know. Check it out to make absolutely sure your positive on the size of the return plumbing.
Eheims are great little hobby pumps. They are quiet and they don't transfer a whole lot of heat to the water (from what I have heard). However, I go by the rule of thumb that a pump gets as hot as the watts that it uses. So, a 70w pump is like having a 70w heater turned on all the time. Eheims use slightly less watts than Mag Drives (compare 68w of the eheim to a 70w Mag 7) and then take the cost of the Eheim: $129.99 vs. the Mag drive 7: $84.99 the difference is very slight and maybe you will get the difference back over the course of the next ten to 15 years.
Mag drive pumps (for you the Mag 7 would work wonderfully) are a good choice for hobby pumps because they are durable, you can easily buy spare parts and they usually last for a decade with the same impeller. Put another impeller in it and it will last for another ten years. But, ultimately the pump decision is up to you.
If you want to also look into another brand, try Sicce pumps... those are top quality hobby pumps. Also, if you have the money, Red Dragon is perhaps about as good as they come.
Lets start seeing some pics of your build progress!
Red Dragon's.....Yeah as good as they come......Another option I'd consider honestly before a Mag would be a WaterBlaster pump......
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodshape http:///t/394612/foodshapes-1st-time-sw-build#post_3512255
Thanks for the reply!
I checked and the exterior diameter of the return bulkhead is 3/4", ******** diameter about 5/8". The 1/2" restriction I'm referring to is an articulated plastic thing that attaches to the elbow at the top to route the return water past the overflow back into the tank. I suppose I can easily replace that bit with something diy. Come to think of it maybe I should look into replacing the bulkheads as well? This is Deep Blue and since picking up the tank (in a post-Xmas sale) I've gathered that the supplied bulkheads are not very good. The holes for the overflow and return are 2" and 1.5" respectively. Can I find better (and larger ******** diameter) bulkheads for those hole sizes?
As for pics, not much to show yet but here is the basic 'wood box'. Still need to cut some holes for the plumbing, electrical & ventilation, then time to spruce it up, (finishing ply, moldings, doors, stain, etc.) So far I'm please with how level and square it turned out, and how strong it looks & feels. The vertical 2x4s protude 1/2" below the rest of it. That gives me only 4 shim points to worry about on my uneven basement floor, but it's also low enough that if there does turn out to be an issue with unwanted flexing in the top front I can slap in a center post and shim the support to the floor easily. I'd really rather not have a center post but it's always good to have a plan B - and if need be I could even make a removable one.

On the question of rigidity obviously the front span is the key area of concern with no center post; for a preliminary assessment of how well the design worked out I did a simple test using a length of wood cut precisely to fit vertically in the front, so that it just fits between the upper and lower plywood fascia. I then parked my 185 lb self centered on the front edge of the stand to see if the piece of wood would still fit in. Almost. As best as I can measure there is about 1mm of flex in the front center with 185 lbs concentrated on it. Considering the weight of an 800 lb full aquarium would be distributed evenly around the 4 edges I'm hoping even that bit of flex won't occur, but I'll make sure to check when I get around to doing a test fill.
Looks good......Shouldn't need a center brace on a 75.....It's a 4' span as Seth suggested.....As far as shimming shouldn't be an issue at all on the basement floor.....If you have to shim I'd use solid lumber to shim if you know what I mean instead of shimming just the end or edge......
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodshape http:///t/394612/foodshapes-1st-time-sw-build#post_3512274
That is great to hear regarding the stand, very reassuring, thank you!
The kit that came with the tank does appear to be a durso style setup; the only thing I believe that was not included would be the piece of airline to stick in the little hole... I'll look into the larger 'locline', thanks.
Re the return pump, I hear Red Dragon's are fantastic, but I think they're just a little over the top price-wise for me. How is the noise level of the Mag7 vs the Eheim 1260?
For lighting, actually I got that as well, sort of... I went a little nuts at that post-Xmas sale and picked up a 48" Deep Blue SolarFlare DX at $100 off... 48 3W LEDs, looked great in the store. Pretty quiet, seem to run cool enough, and very bright. Not too many Customer reviews out for these on the web and those that I've seen have been mixed - some good, some bad, but none based on any real experience with them from what I can tell... oh well, if they don't end up working well for corals they'll become the lighting upgrade I've always wanted for my 28" tall Malawi tank; they are very bright and will reach to the bottom of that quite well, though I might have to diffuse the light a bit to illuminate the whole 6' length of that tank.
Re what I plan to keep that's still a bit up in the air. I do want to keep corals, possibly including sps, but a flame angel is also high on my wish list. I know Centropyge can be risky with corals, I haven't decided on that yet. A royal gramma is a definite candidate though. Not very original choices I suppose, but then this is all new to me so nothing is boring! I figure there's still plenty of time to decide on other fish though, as well as inverts. I'll start focussing more on coral selection & placement once the tank's been running for some time. The goal of this tank is balanced diversity (corals, fish & inverts) - not seeing how many fish I can stuff into it.
Could cost you a kidney........Love the flame angels.....The angels are hit or miss IMO.....

 

[foodshape]

Thanks for the input Shawn.
Re the plumbing, the return bulkhead pipe has an exterior diameter of 3/4", ******** diameter of 5/8". The 1/2" ******** diameter is the 'locline' (so I have learned here that it is called).
As for shimming, that old concrete floor doesn't just slope in one direction, it undulates up and down somewhat so shimming the whole length is as likely to cause problems as solve them. There is thin carpeting and underpadding on it as well. I just feel like I'll have an easier time getting even and level support with just four corners to shim. Here is a shot of the underside of the stand. You can see the corner posts protrude down slightly. This shot also shows other details of the construction better.

...and here it is ready for staining. To save cost I scavenged the finishing plywood and door material from leftovers of previous projects. The finishing plywood and door panel material are both supposed to be birch, but as you can tell, not from the same continent! I know from experience those light door panels will stain darker than one would predict, so the overall tone may end up being close to consistent. If not I'm ok with a two-tone look. I had just enough material left for this job - the false panel between the doors is evidence of that: with what was left of the material at that point I didn't have a single straight edge to work from, and the material itself was warped. This is where the low-tech nature of my workmanship shows, as there is more gap above & below that piece than I would like. If I find that it bothers me I may cover it with a bit of moulding of some sort, or else rip that piece off and re-do it.

Shot showing false panel. I would have made the doors wider but the door material I had was only 19" wide. There would have been a gap to cover even with wider doors though...

And while we're at flooding the place with pics, the skimmer arrived today!

Main body (seems well constructed - at least to someone who's never seen a skimmer before.

)

Motor & other bits:

That's it for now. Next I need to get someone handy with electrical work over to help me run a new circuit in the basement. There is a lot of stuff down there already on the same circuit and I feel I'd be really pushing my luck running this tank off of it. Got most of the stuff I need, including a couple of GFCI sockets.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by foodshape http:///t/394612/foodshapes-1st-time-sw-build#post_3512485
Thanks for the input Shawn.
Re the plumbing, the return bulkhead pipe has an exterior diameter of 3/4", ******** diameter of 5/8". The 1/2" ******** diameter is the 'locline' (so I have learned here that it is called).
As for shimming, that old concrete floor doesn't just slope in one direction, it undulates up and down somewhat so shimming the whole length is as likely to cause problems as solve them. There is thin carpeting and underpadding on it as well. I just feel like I'll have an easier time getting even and level support with just four corners to shim. Here is a shot of the underside of the stand. You can see the corner posts protrude down slightly. This shot also shows other details of the construction better.

As far as shimming.....Shouldn't be a big issue......Have you ever looked at those heavy duty levelers....You can search WoodCraft they have them there might possibly be of some help if needed.....Another way around the uneven, unlevel floor would be to remove the carpet in the tank location and go to Lowes or HomeDepot and get concrete leveler.....Basically it's a leveling compound that's self leveling and you could be a small area perfectly level to sit the tank on.....A bit more work, but definitely would give you a perfectly level are to start with........
...and here it is ready for staining. To save cost I scavenged the finishing plywood and door material from leftovers of previous projects. The finishing plywood and door panel material are both supposed to be birch, but as you can tell, not from the same continent! I know from experience those light door panels will stain darker than one would predict, so the overall tone may end up being close to consistent. If not I'm ok with a two-tone look. I had just enough material left for this job - the false panel between the doors is evidence of that: with what was left of the material at that point I didn't have a single straight edge to work from, and the material itself was warped. This is where the low-tech nature of my workmanship shows, as there is more gap above & below that piece than I would like. If I find that it bothers me I may cover it with a bit of moulding of some sort, or else rip that piece off and re-do it.

Shot showing false panel. I would have made the doors wider but the door material I had was only 19" wide. There would have been a gap to cover even with wider doors though...

Looks very good IMO.......Seth will have to chime in.....He's the resident expert!!!!!!! Any thought on dressing up the edges of the doors....Make sure you seal the backside of the doors well.....Over time moisture absorption could possibly play havoc with the doors and give them a good "wave" if you know what I mean......
And while we're at flooding the place with pics, the skimmer arrived today!

Main body (seems well constructed - at least to someone who's never seen a skimmer before.

)

Motor & other bits:

Kick A$$ skimmer.....The build should be excellent IMO......Same company that makes BubbleKing skimmers also make the Vertex skimmers.....So they are know for build quality......I'm sure your aware that the skimmer you have is capable of handling ozone.....A bit different than other skimmers out on the market that market themselves as to being able to handle ozone, but only after a bit their unsuspecting owners find their skimmers are crazing......
That's it for now. Next I need to get someone handy with electrical work over to help me run a new circuit in the basement. There is a lot of stuff down there already on the same circuit and I feel I'd be really pushing my luck running this tank off of it. Got most of the stuff I need, including a couple of GFCI sockets.
If you can split your tank circuit into 2 separate circuits......It'll keep you from over loading, and if for whatever reason a circuit would trip you wouldn't loose power to everything.....Just my .02. I won't elaborate to much on the GFCI, but I'm not sure I'd want everything on a GFCI socket......Certain pieces of equipment are known to possibly "trip" them prematurely......

 

[foodshape]

No plans to do anything else with the doors, I'll settle for a simple clean look at this point. (I suppose can always change my mind after the fact on that one.) These are a sort of composite panel with a wood surface layer and wood surfaced tape you iron onto the edges. It gives a nice solid hardwood feel and lasts very well with a moisture-proof coating.
I have some (leftover from another project) clear 2-part epoxy I was thinking of using on surfaces likely to sustain moisture damage - thanks for mentioning the inside of the doors, that would be a great place to use that stuff!
On the question of some equipment tripping GFCI interruptors prematurely, I was wondering about that... Can you tell me which type of equipment pieces are most likely to do that? There is one other dedicated (non-GFCI'd) circuit I had installed years ago just for my 125g Tropheus tank, which is near where this new tank will go, and I know it has some spare capacity (but probably not enough for the whole load of this tank). I can easily run a short extension to that for any troublesome equiment and for some redundancy.
Thanks!

 

[acrylic51]

MH's have been know to trip them.....Heaters are another that can.....That's why I'd suggest splitting your load between circuits if possible....That way if a heater of such did trip it, it wouldn't cut power to everything....I'm not an advocate of GFCI, but will put my heaters on 1, but nothing else......That's just me though.....

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by foodshape http:///t/394612/foodshapes-1st-time-sw-build#post_3512574
No plans to do anything else with the doors, I'll settle for a simple clean look at this point. (I suppose can always change my mind after the fact on that one.) These are a sort of composite panel with a wood surface layer and wood surfaced tape you iron onto the edges. It gives a nice solid hardwood feel and lasts very well with a moisture-proof coating.
I have some (leftover from another project) clear 2-part epoxy I was thinking of using on surfaces likely to sustain moisture damage - thanks for mentioning the inside of the doors, that would be a great place to use that stuff!
On the question of some equipment tripping GFCI interruptors prematurely, I was wondering about that... Can you tell me which type of equipment pieces are most likely to do that? There is one other dedicated (non-GFCI'd) circuit I had installed years ago just for my 125g Tropheus tank, which is near where this new tank will go, and I know it has some spare capacity (but probably not enough for the whole load of this tank). I can easily run a short extension to that for any troublesome equiment and for some redundancy.
Thanks!
I know all about epoxy.....Incredible stuff and would work very nicely in those areas you suggested......

 

[foodshape]

Ok, thanks for the tip on GFCIs; seems it's not just you - others seem to have some issues with them as well... One thought then is to put 2 normal wall outlets on the new circuit, and plug in one (or two if need be) of those 4-socket GFCI blocks you can pick up at mega hardware stores (the one I saw has a 6' cord which would be plenty). I can build a nook inside the stand shielded from any splashing from the sump and put that plus a regular powerbar in there. All the in-water equipment that is not problematic would go on the GFCI block, and the heater + anything else that seems to trip GFCIs would go on the normal powerbar. Then at a minimum the normal power bar would need to be switched off whenever hands are busy in or around the tank, but the equipment on the GFCI block at least could still run. Any sense to that approach?
Question: Does a GFCI tripping cut power to the entire circuit or just cause the current to bypass that socket? If it's merely a bypass then I'm not sure I see the advantage of two separate circuits - why not just use some GFCI and some normal sockets on the same circuit? If I do a test/reset on a GFCI in the bathroom or kitchen the lights there stay on (pretty sure they are on the same circuits as the sockets...)
Progress (slow): here is the stand all finished (or as finished as it's gonna get from this cabinet-maker-wanabe). The staining came out preven even. Not perfect, but in my basement no one will guess how different the doors looked unstained.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by foodshape http:///t/394612/foodshapes-1st-time-sw-build#post_3513883
Ok, thanks for the tip on GFCIs; seems it's not just you - others seem to have some issues with them as well... One thought then is to put 2 normal wall outlets on the new circuit, and plug in one (or two if need be) of those 4-socket GFCI blocks you can pick up at mega hardware stores (the one I saw has a 6' cord which would be plenty). I can build a nook inside the stand shielded from any splashing from the sump and put that plus a regular powerbar in there. All the in-water equipment that is not problematic would go on the GFCI block, and the heater + anything else that seems to trip GFCIs would go on the normal powerbar. Then at a minimum the normal power bar would need to be switched off whenever hands are busy in or around the tank, but the equipment on the GFCI block at least could still run. Any sense to that approach?
Question: Does a GFCI tripping cut power to the entire circuit or just cause the current to bypass that socket? If it's merely a bypass then I'm not sure I see the advantage of two separate circuits - why not just use some GFCI and some normal sockets on the same circuit? If I do a test/reset on a GFCI in the bathroom or kitchen the lights there stay on (pretty sure they are on the same circuits as the sockets...)
Progress (slow): here is the stand all finished (or as finished as it's gonna get from this cabinet-maker-wanabe). The staining came out preven even. Not perfect, but in my basement no one will guess how different the doors looked unstained.

Looks very nice.....Very nice indeed.....
Depending how the circuit is wired or where in the circuit itself the GFCI is placed...If it wired a certain way and I'm not an electrician, if it's wired at the begining of the circuit run it could depending how you wire it would kill everything on that line.....whereas is could be wired that it wouldn't affect things down stream on that same line.....

 

[2quills]

I think it was back in 2004 that the national fire protection association started putting pressure on the manufacturers of gfci devices to start building devices that were capable of drastically reducing the amount of false trips from happening from large inrush currents. Typically it was a big problem in the past trying to run things like a refrigerator, garbage disposal or any other appliance that has an electric motor that requires a large amount of current to be drawn on initial start up for a motor to even fire. Manufacturers were basically forced with the challenge of trying to create devices that wouldn't trip every other time your refrigerator kicks on and by 2006. Then in 2008 the NEC made it code for ever single circuit in a house to be protected by either GFCI or AFCI devices.
So now, every new home that is build has an afci or gfci breaker for each circuit in the home. And if you ever upgrade the electrical in your home you are supposed to comply with the current codes. Just a little FYI.
So the newer device (last 6-7 years) don't typically have he same problem of false tripping like the old ones do. If you do start seeing a lot of false trips then typically it means that the device is getting old or worn out and it's become overly sensitive so it's time to be replaced.
Electrical outlets are typically daisy chained in a circuit. Meaning you have a black and white wire coming into one side of the receptacle and leaving out of the other side of the receptacle. If you don't want your gfci receptacles tripping other outlets in the circuit then simply hook your black wires in the box together and your white wires in the box together and then just run short and tie in some short jumper wires to feed power to and from the receptacle. That way when it trips, just that outlet trips and it doesn't break the rest of the circuit.
HTH

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/394612/foodshapes-1st-time-sw-build#post_3513920
I think it was back in 2004 that the national fire protection association started putting pressure on the manufacturers of gfci devices to start building devices that were capable of drastically reducing the amount of false trips from happening from large inrush currents. Typically it was a big problem in the past trying to run things like a refrigerator, garbage disposal or any other appliance that has an electric motor that requires a large amount of current to be drawn on initial start up for a motor to even fire. Manufacturers were basically forced with the challenge of trying to create devices that wouldn't trip every other time your refrigerator kicks on and by 2006. Then in 2008 the NEC made it code for ever single circuit in a house to be protected by either GFCI or AFCI devices.
So now, every new home that is build has an afci or gfci breaker for each circuit in the home. And if you ever upgrade the electrical in your home you are supposed to comply with the current codes. Just a little FYI.
So the newer device (last 6-7 years) don't typically have he same problem of false tripping like the old ones do. If you do start seeing a lot of false trips then typically it means that the device is getting old or worn out and it's become overly sensitive so it's time to be replaced.
Electrical outlets are typically daisy chained in a circuit. Meaning you have a black and white wire coming into one side of the receptacle and leaving out of the other side of the receptacle. If you don't want your gfci receptacles tripping other outlets in the circuit then simply hook your black wires in the box together and your white wires in the box together and then just run short and tie in some short jumper wires to feed power to and from the receptacle. That way when it trips, just that outlet trips and it doesn't break the rest of the circuit.
HTH

 

[foodshape]

Thanks Shawn.
Great info 2Quills, thanks very much.

 

[foodshape]

Over a month without getting anything done due to unrelated drama, ailments, priorities, etc.

Finally did something this week - up to the point of doing test fills. The sump is not configured yet - the 40Br is just in there as is for now to get the basic setup working to my satisfaction.

This was also a first test of the stand; it took the load without making a sound and everything stayed even and level. As for the rest of the test, a few things:
1) The bulkheads were leaking a bit. It seems I wasn't able to tighten them enough from underneath with my fingers. I drained and disconnected everything, turned the tank on it's side and re-did them with a little extra leverage. Hooked it all up again and did another test and it seems that problem is solved.
2) I have not succeeded at making the overflow reasonably quiet yet. The hole in the cap at the top of the durso style kit does prevent the flushing & refilling effect but the amount of air sucked down the drain makes for a constant loud bubbly noise. I tried the trick of sticking a straw or section of airline tubing down the hole, but before I can get it down far enough to have any effect the flushing & refilling effect kicks in. I am wondering if the noise may be due to the braided semi-flexible plastic tubing I used from the bulkhead to the sump (just visible on the right side in the pic above. It's pretty stiff and makes for an 'S' shaped drain (curving down from the bulkhead, then up, then down again into the sump). Due to the stiffness and the curvature the tubing tends to be oval shaped rather than round. I resorted to using this because the overflow bulkhead is a 1.25" barb, and it seems that is not a standard size for the sort of ribbed flexible tubing sold specifically for aquarium & pond applications... There was nothing compatible at the LFS and I found this stuff at the hardware store. Worst case I may have to drain & disconnect everything again and change the bulkhead so I can use more appropriate tubing. Does anyone recommend hard-plumbing the drain? I'd have to do that with the sump already configured and in place, and it seems to me that could be a problem if I then wanted to pull the sump out for any reason (eg: to modify it).
3) I went with a Mag 7 based on popular opinion (this site and other sources). The Mag7 seems ideally suited capacity wise, but is way noisier than I'm willing to put up with, and will be returned. I must have a bad unit or something - I can't believe all the people who feel these are 'reasonably quiet' have that different a perception than me - I think this unit's as loud as my dishwasher, and it's a harsh racket as opposed to a constant hum.. I tried it disconnected from all plumbing to see if the noise was related to back-pressure caused by plumbing restrictions - nope, still noisy. Lifted it off the glass to see if it is a matter of putting some vibration deadening material under it. Nope, still just as noisy suspended in the water column. Curiously, when I turn it on its side the noise level is more like what I would have expected... so I suspected 'trapped air' and let it run sideways for a few moments. When I turn it upright again the racket resumes.

You know that part of establishing a saltwater tank that everyone says is slow and requires patience? I'm really looking forward to getting to that part <sigh>.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by foodshape http:///t/394612/foodshapes-1st-time-sw-build#post_3517677
Over a month without getting anything done due to unrelated drama, ailments, priorities, etc.

Finally did something this week - up to the point of doing test fills. The sump is not configured yet - the 40Br is just in there as is for now to get the basic setup working to my satisfaction.

This was also a first test of the stand; it took the load without making a sound and everything stayed even and level. As for the rest of the test, a few things:
1) The bulkheads were leaking a bit. It seems I wasn't able to tighten them enough from underneath with my fingers. I drained and disconnected everything, turned the tank on it's side and re-did them with a little extra leverage. Hooked it all up again and did another test and it seems that problem is solved. It can be a bear sometimes to get just enough torque on the nuts to get them tight, but you should be good with what you did....
2) I have not succeeded at making the overflow reasonably quiet yet. The hole in the cap at the top of the durso style kit does prevent the flushing & refilling effect but the amount of air sucked down the drain makes for a constant loud bubbly noise. I tried the trick of sticking a straw or section of airline tubing down the hole, but before I can get it down far enough to have any effect the flushing & refilling effect kicks in. I am wondering if the noise may be due to the braided semi-flexible plastic tubing I used from the bulkhead to the sump (just visible on the right side in the pic above. It's pretty stiff and makes for an 'S' shaped drain (curving down from the bulkhead, then up, then down again into the sump). Due to the stiffness and the curvature the tubing tends to be oval shaped rather than round. I resorted to using this because the overflow bulkhead is a 1.25" barb, and it seems that is not a standard size for the sort of ribbed flexible tubing sold specifically for aquarium & pond applications... There was nothing compatible at the LFS and I found this stuff at the hardware store. Worst case I may have to drain & disconnect everything again and change the bulkhead so I can use more appropriate tubing. Does anyone recommend hard-plumbing the drain? I'd have to do that with the sump already configured and in place, and it seems to me that could be a problem if I then wanted to pull the sump out for any reason (eg: to modify it). Your issue isn't with your plumbing going to the sump.....It's with the Durso itself....The hole in the cap isn't large enough for what your doing.....Your attempting to adjust the air flow per say, but in reality your restricting air flow in the drain by when your inserting the tubing your restricting it....causing the flushing effect.....Your Durso won't be dead silent if that's what your wanting....That's a common complaint that they aren't dead silent......
3) I went with a Mag 7 based on popular opinion (this site and other sources). The Mag7 seems ideally suited capacity wise, but is way noisier than I'm willing to put up with, and will be returned. I must have a bad unit or something - I can't believe all the people who feel these are 'reasonably quiet' have that different a perception than me - I think this unit's as loud as my dishwasher, and it's a harsh racket as opposed to a constant hum.. I tried it disconnected from all plumbing to see if the noise was related to back-pressure caused by plumbing restrictions - nope, still noisy. Lifted it off the glass to see if it is a matter of putting some vibration deadening material under it. Nope, still just as noisy suspended in the water column. Curiously, when I turn it on its side the noise level is more like what I would have expected... so I suspected 'trapped air' and let it run sideways for a few moments. When I turn it upright again the racket resumes.

Could be a bad pump....What are your other choices your considering....I think Mags are recommended routinely because of price, but at times in this hobby you can't shop value price......Mags are decent pumps don't get me wrong. Maybe it's a combination of a few things creating the noise....You said you tried different methods of isolation.....Did you try them all together or 1 at a time.....
You know that part of establishing a saltwater tank that everyone says is slow and requires patience? I'm really looking forward to getting to that part <sigh>.

 

[foodshape]

I now have a working box of water, WOOHOO!

(Hey, at the rate it's been going just watching water flow from the tank to the sump and back is a good feeling...)
To update:
I did end up running a new circuit for power, with a gfci as the first of two sockets (so the whole circuit is protected)... this electrical work was a first for me (plenty of those on this project).
I returned the Mag-7. The LFS were good about it. They let me hear another Mag-7 for comparison - it was a bit quieter, but not much, so I guess I am just fussy. They took it back anyway and I got an Eheim 1260. Very glad with that. Not as quiet as (say) a canister filter, but to me noticeably quieter than the Mag-7 and more of a constant, even hum, one that I can put up with. While I'm getting much of the gear I need online, this is one piece I'm glad I got at a store despite paying a few more bucks. Getting to try stuff out, return it, compare same model and different model units side-by-side, etc.
I also switched the drain from braided pressure hose to the flexible green stuff. I don't know that the material itself makes for a quieter drain, but it's much less of a pain to run it exactly how I like, and that makes it easier to both sound tune the drain and keep it out of my way.
Salt added yesterday AM to mix; My RO/DI unit is still on back-order for a few more weeks so it's dechlorinated tapwater for now. My refractometer arrived today so I measured the SG (1.018) and added more to bring it up to around 1.023 (will check that tomorrow to see if I got it right).
I also got a 250W heater going in the sump and threw in a new Hydor Koralia Evolution (model 750) powerhead to help with the salt mixing. I had already two older powerheads going as well as the return pump to get the salt mixed, and I must say I was pleasantly surprised by just how quiet the Hydor is by comparison! Will likely end up getting another one plus the Hydor controller for alternating wave action.
Just about time to get some live rock I think...