Fowlr to Reef...but had ich

[triggerfool]

Let me start by sayin my how ya'll have grown. I havent posted for months, and it seems the community has grown by leaps and bounds.
On to my question...
I want to convert my 43 gallon tall that now contains a juvi niger triger, juvi rectangalaris trigger, and maroon clown into a non-aggressive setup with a clean up crew and what not. Here is my problem. I had a bad ich outbreak about 8 months ago and i treated with copper. So now i dont know if i can have crabs and snails in it. Has it been long enough for the copper to disipate. I have a skimmer and ive done regular water changes, and i have a nice bloom of that...uhm whats it called, you know the red algae. THat had all but disappeared when i copper treated. Ok thats it. All help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[fshhub]

it is highly unlikely that water changes or anythign shy of chemical treatmet(if that will even do a thorough job, which highly is doubtful too) will completely remove copper, from the lr and substrate, sorry to say this, but i would think that your lr and sand(or cc) is more than likely done, copper gets into the rock and substrate and can't be rised off or water changed out completely
you are probably gonna hafta change everything, i am not really convinced that it can be removed if you change the lr and sand and still use the same tank, when i look at buying used tnaks, i go as far as researching this fact, and if they say they ever used copper, the sale is over(for me)
sorry, but HTH

 

[kris walker]

Hi triggerfood,
Do you have LR? Cause I totally agree with fshhub with regard to LR. I don't know much about sand, so fshhub might have me beat there, but I have had CC before, and I treated the whole tank with copper (it was FO). Sometime afterwards, I rinsed out the entire tank and CC in the shower. I used the same tank and CC for my existing reef tank. I have had my 15 or so snails in there without problems for at least 2 months now. 5 or so corals in there for at least a month (2 corals for at least 3 months).
As I understand it, copper is a very, very stable element under standard temps and pressures. This may make it easy to rinse out of tanks (because it won't bond to anything since its so stable). However, I've heard from sharks like Terry that it does bond to substrate, and is impossible to remove from LR, sand, or CC. And when a snail puts its foot on the substrate, it locally lowers the pH to the point that copper is released from the substrate and goes into the snail's tissue. So if Terry's right, over time, it can build to toxic levels in the snails.
So do as I say, not as I do. Gee, that sounds like my Dad talking. <img src="graemlins//eek.gif" border="0" alt="[eek]" />
sam

 

[triggerfool]

Interesting, then i wonder if there are any ways that i can test it out. Maybe get a few turbos, and crabs and see if they live. THe reason i want to do this, is because the 43 gallon is tall and its a pain in the rear to clean the thing. SO id love a clean up crew of some sort. Im thinking st up my live rock, add few critters and see if they live. And if they do, how long is enough to know? Damn...more questions.
PS COPPER SUCKS!!!

 

[marek]

Long ago, on one of my systems (35 gal) I treated with copper (quite heavily) for about two weeks. Back then I didn't care much about copper/effects it had on any other life except for for the ick. Well to make a longish story short, at the time, the system had a whisper 330 or so power filter, no skimmer, very little live rock, same arago substrate it has now and has been running for 2 months. About one month after that heavy treatment, I thought about the consequences of copper etc... but I still went and bought two cleaner shrimp, dozen snails, and a green brittle star fish, two anenomes etc... To sum it up, I've done no water changes on that system at all during the time of treatment and the invertebrate introduction. Well, most of those creatures are well and alive to this very day. This system now has been running for nearly 2 years, has great number of anemones, corals, stars, snails, dusters, glassworms, bristleworms, sponges even clams and more... I cannot by any means state that the copper was directly responsible for anyone’s death... the original shrimps eventually died off naturally after about a year. Couple of those first snails are also still alive and keep on keeping on etc...
I just read the bottle, the products name is 'Quick cure' from Aquarium products.
I can tell you, even after those treatments, the ick still kept persisting, so I stopped using the product, went out to the local supermarket, bought some pure garlic extract, soaked the fishes' food in it before serving and in less than a week the ick has fled never to return again. I'd recommend this.
Take care.

 

[triggerfool]

That is reassuring, and amen for garlic. Copper is a waste of effort, and im sure that garlic is better for the fish. Hey, i eat garlic all the time and not once, not once have i gotten ick. Thats all the proof i need. Thanks for the responses.

 

[tallyho]

maybe the sharks will jump in, but isn't the question how much copper resides and what is it potency?If u get a copper test kit and check the
levels (parts per million) maybe some of the experts could comment if your levels are threatening.
good luck and regards